Red dust on my chain...What is it?

[jimfj]

Yes new chain with about a 1000 miles on it. It is a 530 o ring and the sprockets are in perfect condition. Bike has 11,000 miles on it. The bike had sat for a long time but the PO that I purchased it from, in trying to bring it back to life, purchased the new chain and sprockets. All the rollers move freely and I just set tension two days ago. adjusters are less than halfway out.

I have never pulled the chain compleely off and soaked it in kerosene as the manual suggests. Doesnt that screw with the O rings and contaminate the grease inside?

[hampshirehog]

The chain isn't necessarily duff -you can get what seems like an awful lot of rust off a new chain that has just been stored awhile. Check for tight spots and, if it's a split link, length. If it stacks up fine it almost certainly is.

Oh, and don't soak the thing in any solvents - as you thought, you could booger the o rings. Just wipe it clean with an oily rag

[Griffin]

Now that the thread has drifted to chain maintenance and the wive's tales are starting, I'll trot out an email from RK Chain that I received about eight years ago. I made an inquiry to settle a blistering argument going on here about proper chain maintenance. I've posted it here maybe a half dozen or so times over the years. It's been about a year or so since I last posted it, so here it is again:

Sent: Mon, Feb 09, 2004 07:28 PM

Brett,

Thanks for buying RK chains. There should have been warranty cards in the boxes with maintenance instructions. They come from the factory with that thick sticky grease to help them resist rusting on the ocean voyage and in storage. Leave it on and just add a layer of your favorite o-ring chain lube.

To clean the chain while it's on the bike - apply a good coat of WD-40 and let it soak in. Then wipe the chain down with a rag or soft bristle brush. After you get most of the crud off, put on another coat of lube.

To really clean the chain - take it off the bike and let it soak overnight in a pan of kerosene. Wipe most of the crud off. Hang it by one end and spray well with lube. Wipe most of it off and put the chain back on the bike.

When you lube an o-ring chain, you are not trying to get lube past the o-rings. There is already a lifetime supply of lube sealed in behind the o-rings. What you're doing by lubing the chain is keeping the metal from rusting and the rubber o-rings from drying out.

Leslie Sowden
Director of Sales
FTM Enterprises Inc.

[hampshirehog]

Now that the thread has drifted to chain maintenance and the wive's tales are starting, I'll trot out an email from RK Chain that I received about eight years ago. I made an inquiry to settle a blistering argument going on here about proper chain maintenance. I've posted it here maybe a half dozen or so times over the years. It's been about a year or so since I last posted it, so here it is again:

Just goes to show Leslie shouldn't be working for someone selling chains with O rings. There is absolutely no need to ever soak your O ring chain - there is no point and it is a complete waste of time. Leslie almost contradicts her / himself when she / he points out the lube is sealed for life (correct). All you are doing is preventing the outside of the chein from rusting (correct Leslie). And you can do that by wiping the thing with an oily rag. If it's caked in crud wash it off with a dish brush beforehand.

Soaking your chain is a throwback to the days before o ring chains came about when you could get crap in behind the rollers. Soaking a chain does nothing other than getting the outside wet.

So regardless of the argument about whether O rings are affected by this or that solvent why risk damaging them in the first place?

[tkent02]

Only part of the chain is sealed by o rings. Between the side plates, and the pins inside. Life time lube, dirt stays out, all of that is true. The rollers themselves are not sealed, dirt or water can get inside them, the oil or grease does not stay inside them forever, they need some lube once in a while. If they are dry they can rust inside and make this red dust.

This does not mean the chain is worn out, only that it's been dry a while and of course the inside of the roller is wearing quicker because of this.

If the o rings protected the rollers too, o ring chains would need no lube at al, ever.

If you are a fanatic and want absolutely the best chain mileage, clean it to get the dirt out of the rollers, and lube it often.
I lube mine once in a while, never clean them, and I am content with a chain wearing out in 20,000 miles or so, I really don't give a rat's ass about it.

Keeping it adjusted perfectly ( a tad loose) with correct rear wheel alignment is the most important part.

And for you shafty nerds, stay out of it!
Just let us know when your drive shafts seize up!

[Griffin]

Just goes to show Leslie shouldn't be working for someone selling chains with O rings. There is absolutely no need to ever soak your O ring chain - there is no point and it is a complete waste of time. Leslie almost contradicts her / himself when she / he points out the lube is sealed for life (correct). All you are doing is preventing the outside of the chein from rusting (correct Leslie). And you can do that by wiping the thing with an oily rag. If it's caked in crud wash it off with a dish brush beforehand.

Soaking your chain is a throwback to the days before o ring chains came about when you could get crap in behind the rollers. Soaking a chain does nothing other than getting the outside wet.

So regardless of the argument about whether O rings are affected by this or that solvent why risk damaging them in the first place?

Yeah, I guess somebody who is responsible for all the sales (and therefore the profitability of operations) of one of the largest drive chain manufacturers in one of the largest markets in the world will pass out misinformation that could affect the warranty rate of their product (therefore jeopardizing the company's profits and reputation).

You can still get crap wedged in between the o-rings and the sideplates, which if not removed, will eventutally tear the orings and allow the lubricant to leak out. If that weren't the case, you'd never have to clean your chain with a rag or soft brush at all, only spray some rust-preventative on it once in a while. Soaking the chain will help soften up any crud to facilitate removal.

I've soaked every new chain I've purchased over the past twenty-seven years in kerosene to remove the shipping wax (i don't like it because road grime sticks to it like glue), and so far haven't had a single early chain failure. The few replacement chains I've worn out had the following miles on them (all on my '85 GS700ES, the original chain was replaced at 14,000 miles):

Chain 1 (Tsubaki 530 o-ring) - 18,000 miles between 1987 and 1989

Chain 2 (RK o-ring 530) - 19,000 miles from 1989 and 1992

Chain 3 (RK o-ring 530) - 13,000 miles from 1992 to 2004 (the chain had to be replaced with relatively few miles because the bike sat for seven years and the o-rings dried out and fell apart)

The drive chain currently on this bike (RK X-Ring 530) was installed in 2004 and now has 16,000 miles on it. It was soaked in kerosene before I installed it, has been regularly cleaned with kerosene a couple dozen times since, and in 2008, after riding for three days in pouring rain during a GS rally, was removed and soaked in kerosene, thoroughly scrubbed, and reinstalled (at 10,500 miles).

It has needed adjustment once (after the first thousand miles or so). Since then, the rear wheel axle adjusters have been lined up with the same marks on the swingarm (two marks from the front). It still looks brand new.

I regularly clean my chain with a kerosene-soaked shop rag because it does a far better job than WD-40. I then use Maxima chain wax once the chain is clean and the kerosene has been wiped off.

Kerosene is not much more of a solvent than motor oil, and will only damage materials that motor oil will damage (styrofoam, certain non-automotive rubbers and plastics, etc...). It will not damage the rubber o-rings on a drive chain in any way whatsoever. It actually helps preserve the softness of the o-rings by restoring the oils that leach out of the rubber as it is exposed to air, water, and sunlight. You could leave a drive chain o-ring in a pan of kerosene for months and it will be perfectly soft, supple, and intact when you remove it.



But, I guess some people still know more than manufacturer's reps do about their products.

[hampshirehog]

But, I guess some people still know more than manufacturer's reps do about their products.

A rep is a rep. You don't have to know anything other than your bottom selling price to be a rep. Most I meet can't even remember that. Most I meet bullsh!t like it's going out of fashion to try and impress.

Leslie is a rep for FTM Enterprises Inc. Google tells me they are import agents (I've never heard of them). A rep who works for an agent is even less guaranteed to know anything.

Tom's getting 20k out of his chains without cleaning them.

[koolaid_kid]

I follow the same regimen as Griffin with similar results. I keep kerosene on my shelf and clean periodically, it works wonders. I have switched to the DuPont Teflon Multi-Use Dry, Wax Lubricant, as it is half the price of the Maxima and just as effective.
No WD-40 ever sees my chain, thank you very much. It is very handy, however, for displacing water in a distributor cap of a 1965 Oldsmobile Delta 88 with a 425 cubic-inch Super Rocket V8 with 370 horsepower.