No 1 Cylinder not getting warm

[chuck hahn]

Steve..if the caps vent hole isnt stopped up, the ambient pressures should be on a constant self leveling scenario. Regardless if its sun heat or engine heat, the venting should allow for all fluctuations one way or another.

[wanrep]

But when engine is running, fuel is dribbling thru seat and into bowl at all times, so slight leakage at needle seat would not cause the cylinder to run rich. I bet lots of these old carbs (like mine) probably have worn seats- unnoticeable provided we don't leave it in "Pr" and petcock is working right

Depends on how bad it's leaking. Sounds like his is leaking bad or stuck open to be that flooded.

Slight leakage is more noticeable at idle and not at all on the highway.
The bike never runs "that bad" and as long as the petcock does it's job, a guy will never suspect leaking until the petcock fails and he finds an overfull crankcase.

[zaipai]

I'm new here but not to motorcycle carburetors. I've rebuilt more sets of GS carburetors than I can count.
Fact remains, it doesn't matter if the petcock is on "on" or "prime", if the float valve's leaking, that cylinder is going to flood and run rich when it's running.
No, it won't flood the crankcase if it's on "on" while sitting (until the petcock starts leaking which they all do at some point) but it's still not going to run correctly.

If Zaipai fixes the #1 float valve, it won't matter if he accidentally leaves the petcock on prime. The other 3 plugs looked good, right?

Just a side note...I've replaced the vacuum petcock on every bike I've had with a Pingel, manual on/off/reserve, petcock and I do turn it off.

Yes, the other 3 cylinders plugs are a light tan, the No1 cylinder was black and slightly wet. The no1 is firing it gets warm, just not as much as the others. I was thinking that since I had the oil level so high that it was keeping the no 1 cylinder from sparking enough to actually fire the gas/air mixture and the excess gas was falling into the crank case from there. Is that even possible? I will remove the float bowl and check all that was mentioned so I can either find the problem or rule those out. That is actually not that hard of a thing to do. I will also check the compression on each and vacuum sync the carbs (tho getting the screws loose on the intake manifold is going to bite). I will try and snap a picture of the plugs and get some video of the exhaust so you can see the smoke, funny tho after about 5 min of riding the smoke seems to go away, as in the video I first posted, you will note that even at high revs all that came out was just a little black smoke. However (choke completely off) when I rev it before I ride it there is blue smoke mostly just out the left exhaust.

I did get the rebuild kit from Z1 I believe..
This is what I bookmarked so likely it is what I ordered. I got the kit over a year ago, even tho it was only used a few weeks back at the end of June.

http://www.z1enterprises.com/ItemDetails.aspx?item=KL18-2582

Thanks,
Scott..

[chuck hahn]

If there4 was enough oil bypassing the rings to foul the plug the way you describe youd most limkely have a big white smoke mosquito fogger as well. I dont think its oil..i think its a combination of bad plug and whatever reason is causing the extreme fuel flow. Clean the plug real well or better yet replace that black one and take her for a ride...say 25 or 30 miles and then see what the color changes are in that cylinder.

[sedelen]

Steve..if the caps vent hole isnt stopped up, the ambient pressures should be on a constant self leveling scenario. Regardless if its sun heat or engine heat, the venting should allow for all fluctuations one way or another.

True, but in case of extreme hot, I had it build up quicker than it could vent.

[wanrep]

Yes, the other 3 cylinders plugs are a light tan, the No1 cylinder was black and slightly wet. The no1 is firing it gets warm, just not as much as the others. I was thinking that since I had the oil level so high that it was keeping the no 1 cylinder from sparking enough to actually fire the gas/air mixture and the excess gas was falling into the crank case from there. Is that even possible? I will remove the float bowl and check all that was mentioned so I can either find the problem or rule those out. That is actually not that hard of a thing to do. I will also check the compression on each and vacuum sync the carbs (tho getting the screws loose on the intake manifold is going to bite). I will try and snap a picture of the plugs and get some video of the exhaust so you can see the smoke, funny tho after about 5 min of riding the smoke seems to go away, as in the video I first posted, you will note that even at high revs all that came out was just a little black smoke. However (choke completely off) when I rev it before I ride it there is blue smoke mostly just out the left exhaust.

I did get the rebuild kit from Z1 I believe..
This is what I bookmarked so likely it is what I ordered. I got the kit over a year ago, even tho it was only used a few weeks back at the end of June.

http://www.z1enterprises.com/ItemDetails.aspx?item=KL18-2582

Thanks,
Scott..

Scott,
What happens is, gas fills up the carb but the float valve doesn't shut it off at the right level and gas continues to fill up and out into the mouth of the carb. On other carbs there was an overflow pipe that'd put all that excess gas on the ground.
Since the carbs are tilted slightly toward the engine, the gas runs into the cylinder (if the intake valve is open). The gas washes all the oil off the cylinder, leaks past the rings, down into the crankcase.
Now, when you start the bike, that cyl. burns the excess gas left in the cyl. plus oil that's pushed up from the crankcase past the rings. This will happen regardless if the crankcase is over full or not.
Once it's run for a little bit, the oil ring reseals itself with fresh oil and it stops burning any oil.
This really doesn't harm the rings so don't worry about that.

I'm starting to wonder if your float might be stuck. Try tapping (lightly)on the side of the carb with a rubber hammer or the handle of a screwdriver.
You'll have to take the airbox off, turn the fuel on to prime and look down the carb to see if fuel is running into the throat.

[zaipai]

Scott,
What happens is, gas fills up the carb but the float valve doesn't shut it off at the right level and gas continues to fill up and out into the mouth of the carb. On other carbs there was an overflow pipe that'd put all that excess gas on the ground.
Since the carbs are tilted slightly toward the engine, the gas runs into the cylinder (if the intake valve is open). The gas washes all the oil off the cylinder, leaks past the rings, down into the crankcase.
Now, when you start the bike, that cyl. burns the excess gas left in the cyl. plus oil that's pushed up from the crankcase past the rings. This will happen regardless if the crankcase is over full or not.
Once it's run for a little bit, the oil ring reseals itself with fresh oil and it stops burning any oil.
This really doesn't harm the rings so don't worry about that.

I'm starting to wonder if your float might be stuck. Try tapping (lightly)on the side of the carb with a rubber hammer or the handle of a screwdriver.
You'll have to take the airbox off, turn the fuel on to prime and look down the carb to see if fuel is running into the throat.

Ok I will try that it sure sounds like what is going on.. Here is an image of the plugs.. No 2 and no 4 look like they should, rather tanish.. No 3 is a little darker but not too bad.. No 1 is black as coal and rather shiny. This is how there were before the video I took tonight. I cleaned them all up as best I could and put them back in. Video to follow..

http://zaipai.dlinkddns.com/plugs.JPG

Thanks,
Scott..

[zaipai]

Ok this is just kicking me in the butt. Here is the video, I cleaned the plugs that is all. While the smoke is normally what it does, for some reason the No 4 cylinder was not firing. After this video I checked all the pipes and No 4 was ice cold.. I don't understand. I checked the plug wire and its fine. I cleaned the plugs using a dremel like tool with a brass wire wheel, then some 600git sand paper, gave each one a squirt of choke cleaner (its all I had) and then checked the gap and put them back in.. I don't get it. So ignore the back fires and the way it sounds, the smoke is the same and it does this all the time. After a good ride, it goes away, not completely but you can't even really see it..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L4B8UkVtAPM

Scott..

[chuck hahn]

So your part about the smoke goes away after a good drive...but just maybe theres a slight hint still visible.....well that tells me the valve stem seals are giving up the ghost. May as well do the complete head refresh and get that over with while youve got the head off to do the seals. Heres what youll see if you look inside the spark plug caps with a flashlight..unscrew that slotted brass thing in there and remove the ceramic resistors and replace them with copper or brass rod cut to the same approximate length. NOTE::: 1 and 4 DO NOT have a spring in the caps, but 2 and 3 DO. When reassembling them, put the springs in first, then the brass replacement rod, and then screw in the brass thing. resisitors are almost 95% overlooked when it comes to spark and cylinder loss issues!!!!

[zaipai]

Thanks, I did not know about that. I did not find anything to replace the ceramic rods with. However the brass caps were so loose all it took was a turn and a half and they were out. So I cleaned them up and put them back in and tightened them back up. I did not touch 2 and 3 other then to tighten them since those cylinders were not giving me any issues. Anyway tomorrow I will head up to the hardware store and see what I can find to replace them.
I am hoping its not a head rebuild, that would suck. However winter is coming and that would be a good time to do it.

TTYS,
Scott...

So your part about the smoke goes away after a good drive...but just maybe theres a slight hint still visible.....well that tells me the valve stem seals are giving up the ghost. May as well do the complete head refresh and get that over with while youve got the head off to do the seals. Heres what youll see if you look inside the spark plug caps with a flashlight..unscrew that slotted brass thing in there and remove the ceramic resistors and replace them with copper or brass rod cut to the same approximate length. NOTE::: 1 and 4 DO NOT have a spring in the caps, but 2 and 3 DO. When reassembling them, put the springs in first, then the brass replacement rod, and then screw in the brass thing. resisitors are almost 95% overlooked when it comes to spark and cylinder loss issues!!!!

[sedelen]

So your part about the smoke goes away after a good drive...but just maybe theres a slight hint still visible.....well that tells me the valve stem seals are giving up the ghost. May as well do the complete head refresh and get that over with while youve got the head off to do the seals. Heres what youll see if you look inside the spark plug caps with a flashlight..unscrew that slotted brass thing in there and remove the ceramic resistors and replace them with copper or brass rod cut to the same approximate length. NOTE::: 1 and 4 DO NOT have a spring in the caps, but 2 and 3 DO. When reassembling them, put the springs in first, then the brass replacement rod, and then screw in the brass thing. resisitors are almost 95% overlooked when it comes to spark and cylinder loss issues!!!!

You know that's what I was thinking, valve seals, especially since he said blue smoke (oil) on start up and when it warmed up it would go away.
As far as what to put in those caps, find a screw or nail the same diameter or smaller than those resistors and cut it to length. Copper would be ideal because it's a good conductor, easy to work with, soft. All that would be needed would be a piece of copper electrical wire cut to length.

[zaipai]

You know that's what I was thinking, valve seals, especially since he said blue smoke (oil) on start up and when it warmed up it would go away.
As far as what to put in those caps, find a screw or nail the same diameter or smaller than those resistors and cut it to length. Copper would be ideal because it's a good conductor, easy to work with, soft. All that would be needed would be a piece of copper electrical wire cut to length.

Thanks for the tip.. Odd now I just want out and started it and the no 3 and no 4 cylinders are ice cold. Last night it was just no 4.. Could it be electrical? Some thing odd is going on, the cold cylinders are playing musical chairs..

Thoughts?

Thanks,
Scott..

[chuck hahn]

I prefer something with a bit more backbone than house wire...that way when you tighten the cap thing back in and it squeezes down , the piece of rod stays more rigid and ensures better contact on the wire and the cap ends..

[zaipai]

I prefer something with a bit more backbone than house wire...that way when you tighten the cap thing back in and it squeezes down , the piece of rod stays more rigid and ensures better contact on the wire and the cap ends..

Yea, I was thinking the same thing. Also I am sure I will find something at the hardware store today. I have some things to do this morning but later I am going to have another go at it. I need to let the battery charge.. It ran out of juice last time I started it even tho it started it only had a crank or two left.. Not sure what it takes for the bike to charge it, I am hoping because I did a lot of starting/idling that the bike could not charge it fast enough.

TTYS,
Scott..

[chuck hahn]

Yes thats a problem....uses way more power in a few minutes than the bike can recover from very quickly. Youre doing the right thing by keeping a tender or auto shut off charger to her. Also dont forget to check the fluid level in the battery( if its not a sealed battery) and add some distilled water if needed.