Valve adjustment questions

[eil]

Glad you were able to find a good deal on some locally. I'm not sure what the clearance specifications are for the 650, but on my 850, they are 0.03mm to 0.08mm. So if your largest feeler is 0.04mm, you may be replacing perfectly good shims on valves that are still within spec at 0.03mm. Not by any means the end of the world as it's better to err on the side of a larger clearance, but worth pointing out.

For calipers, I recommend these: http://www.amazon.com/Stainless-Digi...gital+calipers They cost about twice as much as your average "el cheapo" ones, but they are seriously as good as you can get before stepping up to the $100+ Mitutoyo(?) brand. I tested mine against various feeler gauges and it seems to be accurate to at least 0.01mm. (I don't own anything with more precision than that.)

[WilliamGLX81]

Hokay, I measured my shims with my caliper, and noted most of them were different from the value written on the back. Should I trust the value? The manual says so, but I expect them to wear a little. I noticed that an added x means add .02 to the measurement.
Several that I measured came up as 2.63, and I don't see that as a valid shim size.

What tappet sizes exist? I'm seeing only accuracy to tenths of millimeters on the Boulevard page.

EDIT: Nevermind, z1 has them for $4 cheaper apiece and has the hundredths listed too.

[Ghostgs1]

Yes, a 2.63 is a valid size. You have the "X" sizes when you have a shim that is between the two standard sizes. It is also common to have 2.61, 2.62 etc., in other words all thicknesses are possible. There are sizes up to 3.20 though I have never been asked to supply one. Ray

[WilliamGLX81]

Cool beans. Looks like I'll need 3 shims. I'll send you the details in a PM, or I can post my measurements here.

[chuck hahn]

Trust your calipers reading of the shim thickness..they do wear and many will not be whats written on them. Install shims with the writing toward the valve so the numbers don't get worn off by the cam lobes.

Trust the feeler gauges and what they are telling you. Like someone else has said..little looser is getter than a little under the middle .05MM clearance.

I personally shoot for as close to the .05MM as I can get them.

[jsandidge]

I just ordered a set of feelers from Z1 enterprises. They were 20.00 including shipping. The smallest is .04 mm, but if that won't fit through, you're probably too tight anyway. These go in increments of .01 mm, so it should be easy to get dialed in. There's plenty of people selling the cheap Chinese crap on ebay and Amazon, but I won't trust them. I've been to China many times. They don't believe in doing things to spec. Heck, I've even been screwed with Chinese rulers that were wrong. And by quite a bit!

[eil]

I just ordered a set of feelers from Z1 enterprises. They were 20.00 including shipping. The smallest is .04 mm, but if that won't fit through, you're probably too tight anyway. These go in increments of .01 mm, so it should be easy to get dialed in. There's plenty of people selling the cheap Chinese crap on ebay and Amazon, but I won't trust them. I've been to China many times. They don't believe in doing things to spec. Heck, I've even been screwed with Chinese rulers that were wrong. And by quite a bit!

So nice of you to pigeon-hole an entire country and ethnic group. If you've been over there, then you already know that their opinion of Americans is that every single one of us is rich, fat, and lazy. Oh, and I almost forgot: arrogant. Would you say that's a fair assessment?

Anyway, the feeler gauges that I linked to aren't crap. I've measured them and they are accurate. The reason I keep recommending them is because there is no such thing as American-made metric feeler gauges that go in 0.01mm increments between 0.02mm and 0.1mm. The Chinese ones are accurate and you can get at least four for the price of the one at your local tool shop that won't even work for a Suzuki GS valve adjustment because it doesn't have the right sizes.

[WilliamGLX81]

My only complaint about Chinese goods is inconsistency - some are quite accurate, some are not at all. I think this is because its been made more important to meet a numerical quota regardless of quality, which is happening everywhere these days.

But the feelers I bought for $5.85 at a local Napa match up with my caliper's readings of their sizes and they go .04 .05 .06 .08 .10 in mm, which should be enough to do a valve job, though it would be nice to have a .02/.03.

[jsandidge]

Didn't mean to offend anyone

So nice of you to pigeon-hole an entire country and ethnic group. If you've been over there, then you already know that their opinion of Americans is that every single one of us is rich, fat, and lazy. Oh, and I almost forgot: arrogant. Would you say that's a fair assessment?

Anyway, the feeler gauges that I linked to aren't crap. I've measured them and they are accurate. The reason I keep recommending them is because there is no such thing as American-made metric feeler gauges that go in 0.01mm increments between 0.02mm and 0.1mm. The Chinese ones are accurate and you can get at least four for the price of the one at your local tool shop that won't even work for a Suzuki GS valve adjustment because it doesn't have the right sizes.

I should have worded that differently. I don't mean to pigeon-hole anybody. I just think something as important as valve clearances need feeler gauges you can trust. If they are accurate, great! It is good advice to measure them as you did.

Btw, have you solved the cold #1 cylinder problem? I have the exact same issue. Mine is #1 too.

[WilliamGLX81]

Just about to go outside and install the new shims

By the way, how does the shim-lobe clearance affect the valves? Noise mostly?

[jsandidge]

I'll leave it to the experts for details, but tight ones can cause damage. Loose ones can be a little noisy.

[WilliamGLX81]

Uh.... can you get an accurate measurement of the clearance after you replace them and before you run the engine? Because either my measurement, math, or current attempt at checking clearances is not looking good.

Also, my caliper says most of these shims are larger than their markings by .002 or .003mm (and they aren't marked with an x).

I checked the clearances immediately after removing the zip ties and rotating the engine once or twice, and came up with the following measurements:
1 2 3 4
In .06 .06 ? .08
Ex .07 .07 .07 08

The .07 means the .06 fit, but the .08 did not.
Then 10 minutes later, I got these measurements:

1 2 3 4
In .06 .04x .04x .06x
Ex .04x .06x .06 <.04

I changed shims on the measurements with an x.

I think I see where I screwed up now - when the .04mm feeler didn't fit, I assumed that the clearance was .03. On all the valves where I measured ".03", the clearance must have been less than that.

And uh... heh. Maybe I had the feelers swapped (.08 and .04) when I did the measurement right after the shim swapping. Eh. Dinner time.

[Steve]

Uh.... can you get an accurate measurement of the clearance after you replace them and before you run the engine? Because either my measurement, math, or current attempt at checking clearances is not looking good.

You should at least spin the engine several times to "seat" the shims.

I will use the electric starter to spin the engine for about 5 seconds, it tends to work well for me.

Also, my caliper says most of these shims are larger than their markings by .002 or .003mm (and they aren't marked with an x).

What do your calipers read when you close them completely? If they read .002 or .003mm, you need to zero them.

By the way, is that .002mm or .02mm?
Mine only go to two decimal points, yours must be pretty good if they go to three places.

.

[WilliamGLX81]

You should at least spin the engine several times to "seat" the shims.

I will use the electric starter to spin the engine for about 5 seconds, it tends to work well for me.




What do your calipers read when you close them completely? If they read .002 or .003mm, you need to zero them.

By the way, is that .002mm or .02mm?
Mine only go to two decimal points, yours must be pretty good if they go to three places.

.

Haha, they only go to .01. I got excited :P

I was thinking about running the starter, but I think I should put the valve cover back on at least loosely. Right?

[koolaid_kid]

I would just pull the plugs.