Valve cover stuck?

[Seaking]

Many thanks JT.. that's the one.. downloaded..

I'll be checking the shims and jotting them down to see what I have in there..

The shims on the RSV are rather small in comparison to the shims on the GS.. ain't no fear of mixing them up...

Cheers

[Seaking]

Using the zip tie method, I was able to get one cylinder done.. started from the 4th jug (right side of bike).. Both intake and exhaust read 2.65 shims.. tomorrow I'll get the rest.. need to pick up a grabber tool.. seems I lost the manual dexterity to pull shims out

[tkent02]

A tiny flat blade screwdriver and a pair of tweezers works well.

[Seaking]

A tiny flat blade screwdriver and a pair of tweezers works well.

wish I had thought of that earlier lol.. thanks! certainly works a heck of a lot better.. Off to bed, I'll get the others done tomorrow.

Cheers

[JTGS850GL]

What ever you do, don't use a magnet to try to pick up the shims. If the shims get magnetized they will attract any metal shavings that my be in the engine. Tweezers and a small flat blade screwdriver are the right tools.

[Seaking]

Thanks JT.. picked up a pair of tweezers and yep, it went sooo much smoother and easier. I was able to finish off checking the valve checks on all of them now using the zip tie method.. wow, that one tip was awesome. Made for the process that much easier and faster, not to mention 'cheap' as heck!

Checked all valves and none will permit a 0.038MM feeler gauge under them (lobes turned to point forward on intakes, aligned with head surface, exhaust lobes pointed to the rear, aligned with surface of head, as per repair manual image, yes?)

Pulling the shims out to see what they were, found that 2 of them were placed upside down with the numbers facing up but still readable.. (previous owner valve adjustment or from Suzuki build?)

Shims for cylinder 3 were: Intake 2.70MM and exhaust 2.60MM, the remainder were all 2.60MM for intake and exhaust.

So with this information, I know I need thinner shims, but how thin should I go with to be within range? I'm hoping my buddy will be able to send me his shim collection so that I can get them all within the same range.. But failing that, what size should I start off with?

Thanks again for your assistance, it certainly made it a lot easier to do the job and comprehend the process.

Cheers!

[JTGS850GL]

Are you able to turn each bucket when in the inspection position? If so, then you could start with each just one size thinner. Since none of the shims is currently thinner then 2.60mm you could also start with a 2.50 shim as a reference shim and measure each gap individually to calculate the final shim size from there.

[Seaking]

Are you able to turn each bucket when in the inspection position? If so, then you could start with each just one size thinner. Since none of the shims is currently thinner then 2.60mm you could also start with a 2.50 shim as a reference shim and measure each gap individually to calculate the final shim size from there.

I'll have to check them again to see if they will turn in the inspection position.. I know they all turned super easy when pulling out the shims.. I'll see if I can locate a 2.50 shim locally and go from there.

Where would be a good source for shims? I'm only guessing the local shop will be expensive, if they even carry any.. I'll be needing to find a source for the valve cover, breather cover and other gaskets for when I get to the clutch etc.. Ebay?

Thanks again!

[tkent02]

Some Suzuki dealerships will still honor the original agreement to swap shims free of charge. Others will not. The local shop here tried to jack me for $55 for two shims. By that reasoning the stack of shims on my shelf would be worth about $4,000.
Try GhostGS on the forum here, Ray runs the Shim Club, and he's a great guy to work with too. Super great guy. He's quick, it's free and he has the right sizes.

Gaskets, any of the usual online Suzuki places will work.

[Seaking]

Superb!! Thanks for the info.. if I can't find anything locally I'll hit him up for sure =)

Forgot to ask before.. what is the X on some of the shim? 2.60X and 2.60 what is the difference? I recall seeing the x while recording the shim thickness.. can't remember if all or only some had it..

Cheers

[Steve]

Checked all valves and none will permit a 0.038MM feeler gauge under them ...

I see that you are using INCH feelers. In that case, please do not use the metric approximations when reporting measurements.
Do the same thing when entering info on the spreadsheet. If your feelers have both measurements, they are likely INCH, not metric.

... (lobes turned to point forward on intakes, aligned with head surface, exhaust lobes pointed to the rear, aligned with surface of head, as per repair manual image, yes?)

NO. The lobes on the exhaust will point FORWARD and UP. Keep in mind that the exhaust is toward the front of the bike, right over the EXHAUST pipes.
The lobes on the intake will point REARWARD and UP. The intake valves are right over the INTAKE tubes from the carbs.

So with this information, I know I need thinner shims, but how thin should I go with to be within range?

You can start by removing one of your 2.60 shims, put a coin in its place, move the 2.60 to one of the spaces that had a 2.65 or 2.70 to see if that is enough. Knowing that you have 2.60, I would get a "checking" shim in the 2.40 range, because if any of your valves need to drop two shim sizes, they will already be at 2.50. You need to have a shim that is thinner than what you expect.

Forgot to ask before.. what is the X on some of the shim? 2.60X and 2.60 what is the difference? I recall seeing the x while recording the shim thickness.. can't remember if all or only some had it..

Did you not read the tutorial on BassCliff's site or the instructions with the spreadsheet? It is mentioned in #10 on the instruction tab, but does not really explain what it is.

It is a "half-size" shim. If you measure your 2.60x, you will find that it is probably real close to half-way between 2.60 and 2.65, or 2.625. You can not order any of these shims, except from the GSR Shim Club. They can be used to fine-tune your clearances, but the bike will work just fine without them.

As an example (using metric numbers), if your clearance is 0.04mm and your shim is a 2.65, if you change to a 2.60, your clearance will increase to 0.09mm. Technically, that is out of the allowable range (although many of us do it). Actually, the 0.04 is still within tolerance, so there is no need to change it, but it is approaching the minimum, so, by putting in a 2.60x, your clearance will increase to about 0.07mm, right near the top of the spec.

.

[Seaking]

I see that you are using INCH feelers. In that case, please do not use the metric approximations when reporting measurements. Do the same thing when entering info on the spreadsheet. If your feelers have both measurements, they are likely INCH, not metric.

I'm using a feeler gauge that has both inch and mm measurements printed on the blade.. 0.038mm / 0.0015 inch for example, the next step up is 0.076mm / 0.003 inch.. Though the book often gives both inch and mm sizes for various components, it only gives the mm size for the valve clearance min 0.03mm and max 0.08mm which is 0.001 inch and 0.003 inch respectively.. Either I have a wonky feeler gauge (or not fine enough increments) or I've totally forgotten how to use a feeler gauge =(

NO. The lobes on the exhaust will point FORWARD and UP. Keep in mind that the exhaust is toward the front of the bike, right over the EXHAUST pipes. The lobes on the intake will point REARWARD and UP. The intake valves are right over the INTAKE tubes from the carbs.

Face palm.. that's me being bass-ackwards when I wrote that.. (red faced) I did have the lobes in the proper position when measuring though..

You can start by removing one of your 2.60 shims, put a coin in its place, move the 2.60 to one of the spaces that had a 2.65 or 2.70 to see if that is enough. Knowing that you have 2.60, I would get a "checking" shim in the 2.40 range, because if any of your valves need to drop two shim sizes, they will already be at 2.50. You need to have a shim that is thinner than what you expect.

I hadn't thought of doing the coin thing, thanks! I see the caution everywhere of not turning the engine without a shim in the bucket but not the 'why' this is a bad thing.. Can you explain what happens in this scenario? I had seen the question asked many time but never the answer to the question..

As an example (using metric numbers), if your clearance is 0.04mm and your shim is a 2.65, if you change to a 2.60, your clearance will increase to 0.09mm. Technically, that is out of the allowable range (although many of us do it). Actually, the 0.04 is still within tolerance, so there is no need to change it, but it is approaching the minimum, so, by putting in a 2.60x, your clearance will increase to about 0.07mm, right near the top of the spec..

Ok, that explains it well.. makes sense to me now. I'll have to pull the shims out again to find which ones were X marked.. At least I'm getting good practice at this part.. sigh

Thank you for the great info, and especially for your patience!

Cheers!

[tkent02]

The edge of the empty shim bucket tears up the lobe surface of the cam.

[koolaid_kid]

I'm using a feeler gauge that has both inch and mm measurements printed on the blade.. 0.038mm / 0.0015 inch for example, the next step up is 0.076mm / 0.003 inch.. Though the book often gives both inch and mm sizes for various components, it only gives the mm size for the valve clearance min 0.03mm and max 0.08mm which is 0.001 inch and 0.003 inch respectively.. Either I have a wonky feeler gauge (or not fine enough increments) or I've totally forgotten how to use a feeler gauge.

You have an INCH feeler gauge. Most have the metric equivalents printed on them, just as yours does. The best thing to do is to purchase a metric feeler gauge and do the job properly.

[Steve]

I'm using a feeler gauge that has both inch and mm measurements printed on the blade.. 0.038mm / 0.0015 inch for example, the next step up is 0.076mm / 0.003 inch.

One way or the other, you need a new set of feeler gauges. Metric would be nice, but even I don't have them.

Your INCH gauge set should have 0.0015, 0.002, 0.0025, 0.003, 0.004, 0.005, etc. Yours appears to be missing the 0.002 and 0.0025.

I hadn't thought of doing the coin thing, thanks! I see the caution everywhere of not turning the engine without a shim in the bucket but not the 'why' this is a bad thing.. Can you explain what happens in this scenario? I had seen the question asked many time but never the answer to the question.

As tkent mentioned, without the shim, the cam lobe goes down into the recess of the bucket, and the sharp edges of the bucket will shred away the edges of the cam lobe. That leaves little metal shavings floating around in a rather critical area.

I'll have to pull the shims out again to find which ones were X marked.

Don't forget to properly note them in the spreadsheet, too. Note that the spreadsheet makes suggestions based on full shim size increments, so if there is an "X" shim in there, and your clearance is tight, it will suggest another "X" shim. Don't sweat that too much, the standard (non-X) size on either side of that recommended shim will probably work, too.

.