Suzuki Bond #4, ThreeBond 1194/1184/1207B???

[Joe Garfield]

I have been investigating what liquids/sealants I should get as I am getting going on my 'restoration'. One thing I see on ThreeBond's site regarding 1207B vs 1194:

ThreeBond 1194 is a semidrying liquid gasket whose major component is special synthetic rubber. After it is applied and dried, it will form a rubber-like elastic body. Since it excels in padding property, it shows a high sealing effect on bonded surfaces that have poor flatness and large clearance. (Bullets mention padding, vibration, and impact benefits).

1207B Non solvent type silicone-based. (Less description, more bullets, including):

*Dries quickly and offers excellent pressure resistance immediately after applying and assembling.
*Does not corrode copper and copperbased alloys.
*Cures even if it is left at high temperature of 120°C in uncured state.


So, it sounds to me like the 1207B is more like a traditional liquid gasket, where a small amount is applied to the mating surfaces just before assembly, and the bulk of the sealing is done by metal contact with the liquid gasket filling the voids. The 1194 is applied to a surface and allowed to cure, and operates more like a rubber or traditional non-liquid gasket where the metal surfaces are not in contact/sealing.

[duaneage]

I use Permatex 97. I've never had problems, even glued the two engine halves together with it. As long as the surface is prepped I think it's fine.

[Nessism]

I use Permatex 97. I've never had problems, even glued the two engine halves together with it. As long as the surface is prepped I think it's fine.

That's contact adhesive. Not the proper choice for between case halfs.

http://www.permatex.com/component/documents/?view=tds&format=raw&filename=80060.pdf&market=automotive

Permatex Ultra Gray (or black) would be a better choice for between engine halfs.

[Nessism]

Getting ready to put a Kawasaki engine together and they supply TB 1105B if you order "Liquid Gasket" through a dealership. I found a datasheet for this material and on the bottom in the footer it references 1104, so I assume these materials are identical. http://www.techsil.co.uk/media/pdf/T...I19016-tds.pdf

So it seems we have 1105, 1104, 1194 (obsolete), and 1184, sharing a similar "synthetic rubber" chemistry. I think this is the stuff most people associate with Threebond sealers, and sold as Suzukibond, Hondabond, Yamabond, Kawabond, etc. Working time is about 15 mins for 1104/1105 and 5 mins for 1184.

Then we have the 1207B silicone sealer. Black in color so good for black engines. Basically high grade RTV. The temperature range for this stuff is 250C compared to 150C for the 1100 family of sealers. Working time of 5 mins, so you better work fast. Being RTV you want to make sure to not use too much of this stuff or squeeze-out chunks may find their way into an oil galley someway.

No clue which is better but think the 1100 family products, particularly the 1104/1105 stuff, gives you a longer working time, might be better for those of us that shouldn't hurry.

[Nessism]

Just finished assembling the bottom end on my KZ using 1207B and I won't be using it again. The build went fine, and since it's black the ooze out doesn't show. It's the ooze out that's the concern though. This stuff is simply RTV. Save your money and get a tube of Permatex Ultra Black if you indeed want RTV. I was pretty careful to not use too much but regardless, there was ooze out that breaks off pretty easily (although it might harden up more with time). I reached inside the engine through the oil pan and was able to remove most of the ooze out bead so not worried about any issues. When using Threebond 1100 series synthetic rubber sealer this issue doesn't exist though. Wish they made a black version.

[rapidray]

1207B is NOT simply rtv. And if you don't put too much on, the squeeze out is minimal. It is what is recommended by SUZUKI for sealing case halves on 1100s & 1150s & after more than 30 years of using it I have had no issues using it. It seals perfectly, without leaks & if applied correctly works very well. Are you sure you didn't use too much?
Ray.

[Brendan W]

I enquired about threebond 1207 in a local bike shop. The reaction was, ' Oh the good stuff, very expensive. We wouldn't stick a customer for a whole tube of that'
Anyway they loaned me the tube from the workshop and asked for a small donation to their Lifeboats box for the amount I used.
I used the thinnest possible skin of it as an assembly adhesive for the chain tunnel o ring.
My first rebuild back in the 70s I seized a cam on a CB200 using a Hylomar type thing too close to gallery risers so I'm a bit shy of using anything like that.

[Nessism]

1207B is NOT simply rtv. And if you don't put too much on, the squeeze out is minimal. It is what is recommended by SUZUKI for sealing case halves on 1100s & 1150s & after more than 30 years of using it I have had no issues using it. It seals perfectly, without leaks & if applied correctly works very well. Are you sure you didn't use too much?
Ray.

Well Ray, from the threebond website:

Threebond 1200 series: Silicone-based liquid adhesives...

Silicone adhesive = RTV

With hindsight I'd say I used a little too much since there was a visible ooze out bead in places. A thin bead was applied to one case half and then an acid brush was used with a dabbing motion to distribute the sealer evenly. 1207B dries fast; you are supposed to assemble the surfaces within 5 mins. I was afraid of the stuff setting up before getting the screws all snugged up.

The Threebond 1100 series liquid gasket products have a more creamy consistency. It spreads smoother and the ooze out doesn't form a bead which can break off. There is a distinct difference between this stuff and the 1200. As far as I'm concerned the only reason to use the 1207B is if you have a black engine.

[storm 64]

I've always used Gaskasinch with good results... it's more of a rubber cement than a silicon.