Looking for assistance. 1150 clutch / oil pump problems.

[dorkburger]

This is my original thread with pictures and how I got here...

http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showthread.php?230769-A-couple-of-clutch-questions

Going over the fische, i found that parts were missing as follows.

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I plan to order the missing and damaged parts, but the question still lingers. Are the missing parts what damaged the oil pump components due to excessive play?
Also, the fische shows 4 shims, i assume of different sizes (#4 on the fische). Should I get all 4 and use the one that fits best?
The manual shows how to measure this, but i need to study it more to fully understand....

Thanks.

[rapidray]

Call me at 714--356--7845 & I will help you. I have the parts too.
Ray.

[londonboards]

You have probably sorted this with Ray already but I have been through this myself.

Here is one where you can see a shot oil pump bearing:

GS1150 Blog Engine

and here are some pics from my other GS1150 engine:





Looks like they are severely stresses most of the time and should be a standard replacement in any build.

I have also suffered at the hands of that diagram about measuring the slack and adding the correct size washer:



This took me a while to figure out. Just bench build the clutch. Put the oil pump drive gear and outer clutch hub down on a steel plate if possible. Then add the inner spacer, then the shim (you don't have) and the washer. The next bit is quite difficult. Get a feeler gauge between the shim and washer and measure the gap. If it's not within range check the chart and get the correct sized shim. These are still available from Suzuki. I got one a couple of months ago.

Here's how you do the measurement of the shim: GS Shim Measurement Blog

Oh and that little rubbers bung (you item 34): I have never found one of these on any second hand GS engine I have had. The only one I found was on my Dad's GS1100 which we have had from new. I have bought these and put them into GS1100s which no noticeable difference to the clutch rattle. Mostly what I have reads on these threads dictates that they do little to help. Put one in if you want to be sure. Don't fret if you leave it out.

Finally, in answer to your question about why the damage; I don't really know. Your suggestion is as good as any. My feeling was in my engine that parts where flying around inside from a previous clutch explosion that damaged two of the main bearings and possibly this one as well. I don't suppose I will ever know.

Greetings

[dorkburger]

Ray and Richard, thanks for the responses. Ray, I'll be in touch within a day or two.

Thanks again.

[dorkburger]

.....I used up the gift cards for the local Suzuki shop I'd been hoarding and with the exception of 2 of 5 thrust shims (back ordered)- I got the needed parts.
In the quiet hours last night I went to the garage and with good music and a beer and set, out not to accomplish any real work, (i was burned by drinking and wrenching years ago),but to familiarize myself with this unfamiliar to me process.

Heres what I found - I was hoping the shims on hand would work. No good. Max clearance spec is .08mm. With the closest shim I'm at around .1mm. Once confirmed that I was goofed, I began studying the parts on the bench in front of me. I noticed the clutch sleeve surface where the (loose) nut was shows wear marks. With that in mind I slid it onto the input shaft and found a whole lot of play in the splines.......double goofed.

As it stands now, an APE clutch nut is on order, a shim is pending (hopefully soon), and I have a call in to a friend who has a bombed out 82 1100e that I can hopefully relieve of its clutch sleeve.....and maybe a fitting shim.

[chef1366]

I think the main hub was not lined up with the notches in the pump gear to cause that damage.

[dorkburger]

Took it out for a ride tonight. Good/bad news. With the proper thrust shim (as opposed to none) and the bad parts replaced, the bike now shifts beautifully, better then it ever did. Between that and the o ring job on the carbs this winter, it truly is a completely different ride then last year. Bad news. The engine rattle search, which was the reason for this exercise, is still there. The hub from my friend had a bit of play, but less. The timing of the rattle- at idle and about 3-5 minutes after starting it- is the same. It seems that the rattle is quieter though. Im thinking it may be time to buy a new (unused) hub.

[londonboards]

I don't want to be a killjoy but I don't see how what you have done would alter the way the bike shifts gear. If you had the cases apart and were doing stuff to the selectors or gears I would understand it. Unless I am mistaken.

I wouldn't drive yourself made with this rattle. I had never met a silent GS. Just open the oil filler on any running GS and you will hear all sorts rumbling noises. Mostly, if you put the bike in gear with the brakes on and release the clutch lightly, the noise will go away. It's just built in slack in the transmission. Well that's my theory!

Greetings

[Joe H]

I chased a rattle on my 1150 for a while and finally found a broken cam chain guide. Put in a new (used) one that lasted a few years then I thought "am I hearing that noise again" and sure enough another broken guide.
Although I agree my 1150 is noisy in general, especially when compared to anything modern!

[dorkburger]

My theory is that with the thrust shim missing (#4 on the fische) there was still some friction between the inner and outer parts of the clutch even with the lever pulled in. The thrust washer (#10) did show some scoring due to the lack of proper clearance. Regardless of what caused the better shifting im happy to say its definitely not a placebo effect.

[blowerbike]

i always changed customers 83 1100's and 1150's over to a pre 83 hub sleeve.
this eliminated the extra shim in most cases because the pre 83 part is thicker.
same needle bearings across the board.
in some cases on a race application i would add the shim back to space the inner hub from the basket.
if you see rub marks then you need to add a shim to stop contact under severe conditions.

[dorkburger]

Mine had some slight galling. I replaced it, and shimmed within the range stated in the manual.