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Field-repairing a broken clutch cable: Cable ends

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    Field-repairing a broken clutch cable: Cable ends

    Hey everybody, lurker here since a few months, now I got my very first question for you guys:

    Are both clutch cable ends of the soldered type on a '79 GS 550? (assume stock).

    Oh and if Cliff reads this, thanks for hosting the clutch cable replacement guide (and all the other resources, of course).

    Background:

    I had trouble shifting gears intermittently for the last two days (flat out blocked) and first assumed something bent in the tranny, but during this morning commute it became clear what real issue is; the clutch cable had began to disintegrate (inner cable frayed at handlebar lever. classic.). After jury-rigging by adjusting for the increased slack, I barely made it to my workplace on the last three strings remaing (I think I arrived with two left. Gah...).

    The replacement parts will take some time to arrive; but since I don't like to be bike-impaired until then (also, I scheduled my riding test very soon), I'd like to repair the whole thing in a temporary fashion. I do have some bicycle braking cables laying around, which use the same soldered cable end and the handlebar side. However, I'm not sure about the cable end on the clutch side. I'd need it to be a screwed type, since I'm not equipped for soldering the cable ends.

    And yeah, of course I'll check the cable diameters first, though I don't expect the forces between disengaging a motorcycle clutch and applying bicycle brakes differ too much. (Of course, we're not talking about old ducatis, where you got a free workout each time you shifted gears).

    I suspect the broken cable let the clutch engaged just enough to let the engine appear disconnected from the transmission, but still cause enough force on the gears to prevent me from switching when the gear's RPM's differed too much. I remembered that in the dark ages, transmissions were not synchronized, and one had to match the engine's RPM before shifting into gear (I never drove such equipment). When I was trying to mimic this, I had noticeably less trouble to switch gears (If somebody knowledgeable could confirm or refute this hypothesis, that'd be great).
    Last edited by roeme; 10-12-2015, 09:18 AM.
    #1: 1979 GS 550 EC "Red" – Very first Bike / Overhaul thread        New here? ☛ Read the Top 10 Newbie mistakes thread
    #2: 1978 GS 550 EC "Blue" – Can't make it a donor / "Rebuild" thread     Manuals (and much more): See Cliff's homepage here
    #3: 2014 Moto Guzzi V7 II Racer – One needs a runner while wrenching
    #4: 1980 Moto Guzzi V65C – Something to chill

    #2
    These transmissions are still not synchronized. You can shift just fine with no clutch at all, a lot of us never bother with it. If the cable broke at the lever your maintenance is sadly lacking. Levers and perches both need attention once in a while.
    And welcome to the forum.
    http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v5...tatesMap-1.jpg

    Life is too short to ride an L.

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by tkent02 View Post
      These transmissions are still not synchronized. You can shift just fine with no clutch at all, a lot of us never bother with it. If the cable broke at the lever your maintenance is sadly lacking. Levers and perches both need attention once in a while.
      And welcome to the forum.
      Thanks! I think I'll enjoy it here.

      Re: Synchronization, interesting...though I'm having trouble understanding why my shifting so far never caused the transmission to screech...how are the gears' RPM matched prior to enganging? *confused*

      Re: Maintenance, first bike, got it earlier this year, bike went through mandatory inspection last year, so I assumed a somewhat good condition (the gov't departments responsible for this are said to be quite a PITA). Did try checking the "10 most common issues" from Cliff's, aside from learning to ride I so far checked the regulator (has to be replaced soon), rectifier (seems to be OK so far), re-adjusted chain tension/slack, fixed up a small leak in the stator cover, just was about to do an Oil change, read up on how to replace/top up the fork oil (and trying to find out which springs fit it), replaced wiper lamps, got a rotten air filter out (which f!$ed mixture)....bleh, I guess it's just a lot of things on this 30 year's completely stock bike which I need to do in any case, but I bought it to both work on and learn to drive it. While balancing the two, this cable slipped through. Eh, live and learn.

      But you don't happen to know of what type the cable end at the clutch side side is? I'm too much of a noob to drive out of the city clutchless. There are a _lot_ of red lights on the way. (getting into Neutral is already a minor hassle even with the clutch. That could be either me or the bike - more likely me).
      #1: 1979 GS 550 EC "Red" – Very first Bike / Overhaul thread        New here? ☛ Read the Top 10 Newbie mistakes thread
      #2: 1978 GS 550 EC "Blue" – Can't make it a donor / "Rebuild" thread     Manuals (and much more): See Cliff's homepage here
      #3: 2014 Moto Guzzi V7 II Racer – One needs a runner while wrenching
      #4: 1980 Moto Guzzi V65C – Something to chill

      Comment


        #4
        I'm not sure why you're asking what type of end you clutch cable has, why don't you just look at it and you'll know? if you are not equipped for soldering there is no way you can fix the cable. Maybe there's a wrecking yard near you? another GS member close by with spares? wait for the new cable is probably the best idea.
        Last edited by azr; 10-12-2015, 02:14 PM.
        Rob
        1983 1100ES, 98' ST1100, 02' DR-Z400E and a few other 'bits and pieces'
        Are you on the GSR Google Earth Map yet? http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum...d.php?t=170533

        Comment


          #5
          Yes, you can shift gears with broken clutch cable, but the fun comes when you have to stop ,like in traffic/intersections, etc. . Carry a spare cable- it's cheap insurance and an easy roadside repair.
          1981 gs650L

          "We are all born ignorant, but you have to work hard to stay stupid" Ben Franklin

          Comment


            #6
            Can get ends here...

            MY BIKES..1977 GS 750 B, 1978 GS 1000 C (X2)
            1978 GS 1000 E, 1979 GS 1000 S, 1973 Yamaha TX 750, 1977 Kawasaki KZ 650B1, 1975 Honda GL1000 Goldwing, 1983 CB 650SC Nighthawk, 1972 Honda CB 350K4, 74 Honda CB550

            NEVER SNEAK UP ON A SLEEPING DOG..NOT EVEN YOUR OWN.


            I would rather trust my bike to a "QUACK" that KNOWS how to fix it rather than a book worm that THINKS HE KNOWS how to fix it.

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by azr View Post
              I'm not sure why you're asking what type of end you clutch cable has, why don't you just look at it and you'll know? if you are not equipped for soldering there is no way you can fix the cable. Maybe there's a wrecking yard near you? another GS member close by with spares? wait for the new cable is probably the best idea.
              Eh, the bike is currently parked at my workplace's garage. I don't want to wrench too much there, and wanted to know wether there is a point at all to attempt a temporary repair. I don't want to fix the (inner) cable by itself, but rather replace it with ones that I have available.
              #1: 1979 GS 550 EC "Red" – Very first Bike / Overhaul thread        New here? ☛ Read the Top 10 Newbie mistakes thread
              #2: 1978 GS 550 EC "Blue" – Can't make it a donor / "Rebuild" thread     Manuals (and much more): See Cliff's homepage here
              #3: 2014 Moto Guzzi V7 II Racer – One needs a runner while wrenching
              #4: 1980 Moto Guzzi V65C – Something to chill

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by chuck hahn View Post
                Thanks. Do they ship internationally?

                Originally posted by tom203 View Post
                Yes, you can shift gears with broken clutch cable, but the fun comes when you have to stop ,like in traffic/intersections, etc. . Carry a spare cable- it's cheap insurance and an easy roadside repair.
                Yep, carrying a spare is what I'm going to do. Coincidence, since posting previously, I found an emergency (inner) cable kit on amazon, with a guaranteed delivery to my workplace two days from now. And yeah, the cable did give way just at a intersection. Luckily, I was able to roll on the sidewalk, and do emergency maintenance...

                So anyway no need anymore to jury-rig something up. I'll let you guys know how it goes.
                #1: 1979 GS 550 EC "Red" – Very first Bike / Overhaul thread        New here? ☛ Read the Top 10 Newbie mistakes thread
                #2: 1978 GS 550 EC "Blue" – Can't make it a donor / "Rebuild" thread     Manuals (and much more): See Cliff's homepage here
                #3: 2014 Moto Guzzi V7 II Racer – One needs a runner while wrenching
                #4: 1980 Moto Guzzi V65C – Something to chill

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by roeme View Post
                  Thanks! I think I'll enjoy it here.

                  Re: Synchronization, interesting...though I'm having trouble understanding why my shifting so far never caused the transmission to screech...how are the gears' RPM matched prior to enganging? *confused*
                  They gears are always engaged, they are known as constant mesh transmissions. What happens when you shift is you decide which pair of gears has both gears connected to their shaft at the same time. Look at a parts diagram, it's cool stuff.

                  If you think that's interesting, take apart a Hodaka transmission sometime.

                  And if you really like puzzles try to put it back together again.
                  http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v5...tatesMap-1.jpg

                  Life is too short to ride an L.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by tkent02 View Post
                    They gears are always engaged, they are known as constant mesh transmissions. What happens when you shift is you decide which pair of gears has both gears connected to their shaft at the same time. Look at a parts diagram, it's cool stuff.

                    If you think that's interesting, take apart a Hodaka transmission sometime.

                    And if you really like puzzles try to put it back together again.
                    I literally watched several youtube videos for the last 30mins explaining constant mesh transmissions (The live object is a bit easier to grasp than the diagrams). Fascinating, and enlightening. Thanks for the pointers.

                    The hodakas diagrams look insane.
                    #1: 1979 GS 550 EC "Red" – Very first Bike / Overhaul thread        New here? ☛ Read the Top 10 Newbie mistakes thread
                    #2: 1978 GS 550 EC "Blue" – Can't make it a donor / "Rebuild" thread     Manuals (and much more): See Cliff's homepage here
                    #3: 2014 Moto Guzzi V7 II Racer – One needs a runner while wrenching
                    #4: 1980 Moto Guzzi V65C – Something to chill

                    Comment


                      #11
                      An update for the interested; got a frozen bolt for the clutch cover. Those $!@#€ philips heads...man, what did the designer(s) think?!

                      One friggin' bolt now stands between me back on the road and being grounded. Impact driver so far didn't help.
                      #1: 1979 GS 550 EC "Red" – Very first Bike / Overhaul thread        New here? ☛ Read the Top 10 Newbie mistakes thread
                      #2: 1978 GS 550 EC "Blue" – Can't make it a donor / "Rebuild" thread     Manuals (and much more): See Cliff's homepage here
                      #3: 2014 Moto Guzzi V7 II Racer – One needs a runner while wrenching
                      #4: 1980 Moto Guzzi V65C – Something to chill

                      Comment


                        #12
                        I assume youre gonna replace them, so drill the head off. Then use vice grips on the shaft with some heat and penetrating oil.
                        MY BIKES..1977 GS 750 B, 1978 GS 1000 C (X2)
                        1978 GS 1000 E, 1979 GS 1000 S, 1973 Yamaha TX 750, 1977 Kawasaki KZ 650B1, 1975 Honda GL1000 Goldwing, 1983 CB 650SC Nighthawk, 1972 Honda CB 350K4, 74 Honda CB550

                        NEVER SNEAK UP ON A SLEEPING DOG..NOT EVEN YOUR OWN.


                        I would rather trust my bike to a "QUACK" that KNOWS how to fix it rather than a book worm that THINKS HE KNOWS how to fix it.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          They are not Phillips, they are JIS. They work fine. After 30 years and no antisieze they would be stuck no matter what they were.

                          If an impact won't get it, drill the head off. But I bet an impact with the proper tip and technique would work. It almost always does.
                          http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v5...tatesMap-1.jpg

                          Life is too short to ride an L.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Thanks guys.

                            In the end, I did get it out with the impact driver. Soaked it in penetrating oil (WD40) overnight, and used a bigger hammer and some earplugs

                            Originally posted by chuck hahn View Post
                            I assume youre gonna replace them (...)
                            Yup. By chance any recommendations for a screw set? Are the Z1 truly INOX? Though most of the current heads look fine, I think I'm better off replacing them in the long run; see pictures to get an idea of the cruft that was lurking in there.

                            Originally posted by tkent02 View Post
                            They are not Phillips, they are JIS. They work fine. After 30 years and no anti-seize they would be stuck no matter what they were. (...)
                            Thanks, learned yet another thing. I think in those 30-odd years they might've been out one time (but not more); one of the top-side screws of the sprocket cover is missing, and the cover seals don't really look stock (they're slightly protruding) and do not leak one drop of oil — then again, I don't really know what's to be expected of a bike this age, and in my country. In any case, this might've helped me.

                            The screwdriver which was supplied with the onboard toolset clearly isn't JIS. No matter how much I pressed, it wanted to cam-out (I stopped after it did that twice, to not destroy the head). The impact driver bit however fit perfectly. So that's going into the trash; any recommendations for a replacement toolset?

                            Story Time for the interested:

                            Both the emergency inner cable from amazon, and replacement cable from wemoto arrived yesterday at my workplace. The former guaranteed a two-day delivery, which I placed the order for after I discovered that wemoto quotes a 10-15 day delivery for international orders — but they took merely three days! I'm positively surprised.

                            Nonetheless; I opted to replace only the inner cable; wanting to avoid to take off the tank, this being my first somewhat challenging repair on the bike, and already being familiar with replacing inner cables of bowden cables. After fruitlessly trying to unscrew the last bolt (I had success with all the other ones), a colleague brought and lent me his impact driver today (I don't yet have a lot of motorbike-related tools of my own. That's still to come).

                            After several tries with the impact driver, I got the screw out, and after some wiggling, the sprocket cover off.
                            This is what I was greeted with (sorry for the bad quality, I only had my mobile with me):



                            It's a bit hard to recognize, maybe this helps:



                            That's at least 1 cm of all kinds of dirt. Something died in there There was some weird fibre web of possibly organic origin wrapped around the clutch actuator (no idea what the correct designation is) rooted in the dirt/soot visible in the picture. I assume the majority of the dirt in this picture was dried out chain oil; it was wax-like and very hard to get out, thankfully, WD-40 made the job a bit easier.

                            While cleaning out the worst I thought that this lever's shape ain't what it's supposed to be, looks bent? (just above the spring)



                            Or is this lever supposed to look like this? Anyone got a reference image?

                            From there on; I installed the new inner cable within minutes; test-driving around the parking seemed yielded nothing negative; so I buttoned everything up and got back on the street – unfortunately I was forced to return and redo the job because the new cable got loose, didn't tighten a screw enough. Went all Hulk on it, and yanked the s!%& out of the clutch on the next test drive. On the plus side, I'm now able to do the whole thing within 20minutes, that'll come in handy when doing a long journey and Murphy strikes. Also, I got to practice a bit of clutch-less shifting, like them graybeards.
                            Attached Files
                            #1: 1979 GS 550 EC "Red" – Very first Bike / Overhaul thread        New here? ☛ Read the Top 10 Newbie mistakes thread
                            #2: 1978 GS 550 EC "Blue" – Can't make it a donor / "Rebuild" thread     Manuals (and much more): See Cliff's homepage here
                            #3: 2014 Moto Guzzi V7 II Racer – One needs a runner while wrenching
                            #4: 1980 Moto Guzzi V65C – Something to chill

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Allen head full engine cover kit is how I would go. The allens are way easier to remove. I got a set of metric allen head 3/8 drive sockets. Works like a champ. These are SAE but i just wanted to post a picture up...get these but the metric set.

                              MY BIKES..1977 GS 750 B, 1978 GS 1000 C (X2)
                              1978 GS 1000 E, 1979 GS 1000 S, 1973 Yamaha TX 750, 1977 Kawasaki KZ 650B1, 1975 Honda GL1000 Goldwing, 1983 CB 650SC Nighthawk, 1972 Honda CB 350K4, 74 Honda CB550

                              NEVER SNEAK UP ON A SLEEPING DOG..NOT EVEN YOUR OWN.


                              I would rather trust my bike to a "QUACK" that KNOWS how to fix it rather than a book worm that THINKS HE KNOWS how to fix it.

                              Comment

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