Starter problems when hot

[oregonjake]

Today it was almost 90 in the Willamette Valley, and I had to ride in traffic for a while. I finally stopped for maybe three minutes (oil temp was just below 210,) and when I went to start Miss Bugly, she acted as if the battery was almost drained. The starter turned over very slowly, one revolution and then nothing. I hit the starter button numerous times and finally she started. I got home, waited about an hour for her to cool down, turned the key and she started as if nothing was wrong.

Is the starter going bad? Was there something in how hot she was that might have caused the starter to act funny? I am puzzled but not overly concerned.

Thanks in advance.

[tom203]

Starter motor always gets nicely baked as you ride no matter if air temps are 60 or 90. If you are ambitious, open it,clean it , and look at brushes. The big engines seem tough to turn over at times. Park on slopes!

[chuck hahn]

Yup..sounds like its full of carbon dust and the brushes are worn out to me.

[John Park]

While it's possible that the starter is needing help, it's also possible that the engine - I don't have a proper term for it - heat seized when you shut it off. This was common on some Ford V8s if you shut them down immediately when they were really hot. I could tell you stories but …..the oil just bakes off the rings and leaves them dry; the engine then can be hard to turn until fresh oil gets up to the rings or it cools down a lot.

I've had it happen, and I think it's worse when you are running gas with ethanol in it as it tends to strip the oil off the cylinder walls. And it's probably why the engine finally started after you turned it over for a bit and then was normal when it was cool again.

The center cylinders will run pretty hot in traffic, an inevitable downside of air-cooled fours. I don't think that running a synthetic would make much difference, but maybe some. And the oil temp isn't an indicator of ring and cylinder wall temperature of the inner jugs.

Or, maybe you just need to replace the brushes.

[oregonjake]

Your input is appreciated, now I am as puzzled as before. I will pull the starter (any special tips for R&R?) and check the brushes and commutator, clean if needed. Are brushes available if I need to replace them? Suzuki dealer? Online?

I have heard of what you describe; ethanol stripping oil off the cylinder walls and rings but never experienced what that is like...until maybe now. I have clear gas available, maybe running that (and paying the extra expense) will make a difference, I don't know but are willing to try. I run a synthetic blend, just hit 1500 miles on last oil change and plan to do another this weekend before the four day ride to Eastern Oregon.

I understand the oil temp gauge is a general guide, just thought the temp shown might indicate a direction to look. I just rode her about 10 miles to the local store for errands, not enough time to really heat up yet the last stop I made she seemed like she wanted to exhibit the same symptoms as the other day so...

Starter R&R coming up, probably Monday. We'll see what's inside then and proceed.

[loud et]

Be careful on the 2 long screws that hold the starter together. They are often extremely hard to get out. You can twist the screw , snap it, strip it or any combination of the three.
Use penetrating oil on the thread area or heat it with a small butane pencil torch.
If you still have trouble, don't try to turn the screw head end, use vice grips on the smooth shaft part down by the threads. (Less energy lost as compared to the twist of the shaft if you use the screw head to turn it)
You may think I'm crazy, but I've mangled a few that were very stuck.

[oregonjake]

Be careful on the 2 long screws that hold the starter together. They are often extremely hard to get out. You can twist the screw , snap it, strip it or any combination of the three.
Use penetrating oil on the thread area or heat it with a small butane pencil torch.
If you still have trouble, don't try to turn the screw head end, use vice grips on the smooth shaft part down by the threads. (Less energy lost as compared to the twist of the shaft if you use the screw head to turn it)
You may think I'm crazy, but I've mangled a few that were very stuck.

To paraphrase "Ghostbusters" and Bill Murray "All right. Important safety tip. Thanks, Egon"

I usually use a bit of WD40 or similar when extracting screws that have not been loosened/removed in a while. Always seemed good practice, especially when you have to deal with that weird electrolytic welding thing steel and aluminium do when the steel screw had not been loosened for years.

Hopefully there will be no problems, the tip is greatly appreciated. Thanks.

[1948man]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZlXuEbW0ML0

I rebuilt one with this video and Rick's kit and it works well. I'm not a very experienced wrench. I've experienced some sluggish starts and always make sure I start in neutral just in case the clutch isn't functioning perfectly and there is some added drag on the engine (even with the clutch disengaged.)

[oregonjake]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZlXuEbW0ML0

I rebuilt one with this video and Rick's kit and it works well. I'm not a very experienced wrench. I've experienced some sluggish starts and always make sure I start in neutral just in case the clutch isn't functioning perfectly and there is some added drag on the engine (even with the clutch disengaged.)

Excellent video, it helps a lot to see how someone else does it. Thanks for the link. I also start her in neutral, I had noticed that when starting her with the clutch pulled in there seemed to be a slower starter turnover but she would fire. Even in neutral I pull the clutch lever in, habit I guess.

[Brendan W]

Before extracting the starter motor I would take a pair of jump leads to the motor supply pole and the crankcase. It may be you have issues around the supply and return cables and not the motor. Be careful in there with jumpers - there are at least fifty ways to weld things together.

[gustovh]

Jake if worst comes to worst, I have another starter.

V

[hillsy]

I had the same thing on my 1150 many years ago and it ended up being the solenoid.

Kinda had me scratching my head as to why it would be the solenoid, but a new one fixed it.

[oregonjake]

Before extracting the starter motor I would take a pair of jump leads to the motor supply pole and the crankcase. It may be you have issues around the supply and return cables and not the motor. Be careful in there with jumpers - there are at least fifty ways to weld things together.

Ah yes, the joys of shorting out the battery cable and find it is now welded to the frame. Been there and done that. The cables looked fine, connectors at the ends showed no fraying or loosening but that is to be checked again. Appreciate the reminder.

[oregonjake]

I had the same thing on my 1150 many years ago and it ended up being the solenoid.

Kinda had me scratching my head as to why it would be the solenoid, but a new one fixed it.

Hmm, never thought to look at the solenoid as usually they don't give a problem. I may swap it out for another just to see what happens. Thanks for the pointer.

[oregonjake]

Jake if worst comes to worst, I have another starter.

V

Thanks Vince, maybe we could bring it with us on the trip, just in case....LOL!