Clutch noise again!!

[Guest]

Did my clutch on my 83 1100 E about 500 miles ago seemed pretty quiet for awhile, then I started to hear something (more when cold) up to about 3 grand. I remembered seeing this video https://youtu.be/_Mh7AzXLOnU my noise is exactly like that when I take off the oil fill cap ,but it gets a little quieter when I pull the clutch in. Anyone know how and what he fixed to get rid of that noise ? The inner part of the basket where the it goes on the spline is solid, I know those can separate. When I spun the inner basket by hand I could hear some noise but not real loud how do u know if the main needle bearing is still good, it looks fine should I still replace it? Also I would like to change the oil pump gears why I have the clutch out to the 750 ones for more volume, so am I correct that they are the 76-82 750 gears 4valve ?THANKS for any help

[Nessism]

All the 750's have the gears, both 2V and 4V.

Sounds like you need a heavy duty clutch hub back plate and springs. Highly recommended.

[londonboards]

Hi, I'm the guy who did that vid.

I have concluded several things over the years; Suzuki GSs ain't GSs without a clutch noise. Have you ever heard a bike with a dry clutch like some of the Ducatis? Sounds like they are about to explode. By their very nature the plates and tolerances need to be free enough to move easily.

For the higher performance GS bikes (like GSX1100/GS1150s) the back plate and spring have been known to fly off and destroy your engine. Here are the remains of one such explosion. You can see the clutch parts:



If you have any extra power goodies or you ride real hard, you might want to think about having those clutch springs replaced. Whilst you're at it, have the back plate replaced with a thicker one (I think APE or Falicon do this). Then have it welded up as above. The one in the post above looks like the thicker backing plate too. You can tell because there are no lips on the apertures for the springs.

This however, won't stop the noise. Those loose springs do not make a rattling noise like the one you hear with the oil filler cap taken off. Harmonics of the sound indicate something far bigger and more solid rocking about.

My theory has always been this; there is lateral movement of the other clutch basket along the shaft or at least along the big spacer and needle roller that it sits on. The bevelled primary drive gear is constantly pushing and pulling these components sideways - that's one reasons the racing boys use straight cut gears. Now on 2 valve GS engines there is not a lot you can do about this. Tighten the clutch hub up fully and that is pushing on the spacer not the hub. The outer hub can still move sideways somewhat. There is a teeny bit of a rubber bung that goes into the back side of the outer hub:



That shows a bad one and a new one. This goes against the spacer/washer behind the hub. I can only think it was there to alleviate a bit of "flapping". Make sure yours is in good shape - although I can't say the new one had much effect on my noise.

After that I guess that the big clutch spacer is just a little too wide for the outer clutch hub and it was made that way. Perhaps they could be shaved down to stop the movement but I am no engineer to know if that is even possible.

On the 4 valve engines, they included an additional spacer/shim/washer (whatever you want to call it) that comes in 3 different thicknesses. You perform a measurement and insert the correct size item to leave the correct size gap.

See my blog post: Figuring Out the Clutch Shim



In fact this picture is somewhat wrong. The feeler gauge should NOT be showing in the centre but it gives you the idea. Look at the manual:





Doing this correctly really will make a difference to the noise level.

There is another problem that I discovered in one of my GSs. Take a look at this video and see if you have an inner hub with a steel insert that has come lose.

Essentially, you are always going to have some noise.

Open the filler cap again, start the engine, sit on the bike, pull in the clutch, engage first gear, hold the front brake and slowly release clutch until it's at the biting point. Hold it there. See, all the noise (well nearly all the noise) goes away. All the slack is gone.

Just ride with full throttle!

[rapidray]

I build heavy duty clutch hubs. $300.00 plus return shipping if you send me a good, buildable hub. I have cores for 100 if yours is bad. About a week to do it & get it back to you. Return shipping is around 20 bucks if you are in the 48 USA.
Ray.

[sevenupman]

Hmm. I have a gs 850gl 36,000km on it. Valve train has been set. However seems like the noise i hear comes from what u just showed me. Thank you.

[Mad GS 750 E]

Thanks for all the info. I dont think I can afford the plate rebuild at this time but I do like the looks of the one that Nessism posted who did u have do that? Londonboards thanks for the detailed explanations ,to answer some questions my inner basket is solid no separation on the part that goes on shaft ,I have a new rubber piece behind the primary and new oil pump drive bearing, new drive and friction plates. Clutch seemed to work ok but just noisy (especially when cold). so why I have it out I guna change big needle bearing, shim basket which I didn't know about and get the six round spacers that go inside springs. Once in a while my clutch would feel funny I'm thinking the springs were getting hung up on the spacers, last time I sanded the spacers smooth and after about 500 miles some of them were chunked up pretty good . Is there any special way to tighten the bolts for the springs so they would be more centered and not get hung up so easily? I also want to get the high volume oil pump gears from the 750's been searchin ebay with no luck ,so my understanding is I need both gears 38 teeth clutch side' pump side 29 teeth ,is this correct? and does anyone have a set they would like to sell ?Please contact me if you have a set. On the basket shimming u set up like Londonboards showed and you measure how much space between the washer and the basket the measurement is .03mm to .0 8 mm is it better to be on the low side or high side? and are u suppose to use just one shim or can u use more than one to get right measurement. and also my gear on my oil pump moves in and out alittle by hand I measured it and its approx.; 1.5 mm I took a video will try to post later is this normal ? Ray when I get the cash together I will contact you thanks . thanks again for all the info