Looking for any GS shaft drive indepth experience

[Gorminrider]

Thanks.

Good material to help in my learning.

Is that what I looked at, but had the photobucket problem... and then was comments about updating that... but not seeing those comments now....

...

Redman,here. I made a PDF INCLUDING pix and put it on Google Drive you (or anyone else) should be able to get it... You might have to look around for the "download as pdf" -I can't tell what the page looks like in other browsers than firefox but so far has worked when I put stuff there. Any Problems report back as I haven't tested.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B3KPMO1yGVgrWS00Mnl5MWZCOHc/view?usp=sharing

[Redman]

Redman,here. I made a PDF INCLUDING pix and put it on Google Drive you ..........

Looks good. Have it stored. Thanks.

What do you see when you peel back the boot on the swingarm and look and wiggle things?

.............

Brian and All,
Thanks.

Have been working extra overtime and extra days. Wife has been gone a few days.

Have some time this afternoon.
Bushes well over due for trimming. Lawn needs mowed. Garage needs to be re-stained. Dishes piled up in sink. Laundry baskets full. But that all can wait.

Got out into the garage and got the boot pulled back, some.

A few drops of thick black oil dripped out, does smell like the gear oil, and is some, but not alot, black thicker stuff in bpttom of the boot.
But everythihng inside looks clean (before I got my greasy fingers in there), so the oil was just on bottom of the boot.

Could get fingers on things, can turn/spin a just a bit before it is trying to turn the wheel.
Could not make any up/down or side/to/side klunking around.

Will see what else I can observe.

>> later note.

If got fingers from both hands in there, can try harder to push things up/down and side-to-side, all seemed good there, but... could push things back and forth (rear to front), a good 3/8th inch.... maybe that is terrible... eh? Or maybe not, I see on part fisch digaram that are splines there to allow for such.... but that is just my ignorant guess.

.

[Redman]

.................................................. .....
.................................................. ...................... But without the nut keeping tension and holding everything together, it makes noise and clunks and will soon destroy itself. That shudder on decel is the bit that concerns me -- it's one of the symptoms of this issue.....................

Ah, the shuddering on decell is getting worse (maybe 3 hundred miles), now instead of just a occassional brief (1/2 second) shudder on decell, is a more frequent occurance on decell and last longer maybe a full second or so. But no klunking sound, just the prevalent whine/whirr/widdle sound (that I cant say is rpm or speed related).

I still need to understand this better. Thanks for the great explaination. I do need to study it again, some more, again.
Am starting to see how the output portion of this is something of one unit.

Is the "destroy itself" include destroying more than "itself"....? As in, I should not take a chance on that happening?

(I have had one van and one car that both had gear whine from rear end differentail, in both cases every mechanic said it can do that for 10s and 10s of thousand miles without a problem, might just get louder. Maybe that experience is causing me to be too casual about this. )

[AMK]

When my '83 started whining I pulled the drive bevel gear out and found the driven gear was loose.
Lost all preload from the stud breaking off.
The drive gear is easy to remove and gives you a little window to see whats going on in there. If it has damage to it you can bet the driven has also.

[Redman]

Ok, am starting to understand this better.
Am better correlating what see in microfisch with what is what on the bike, and learning the names.



THe "Drive" gear/assembly is driven by the transmission (transmission and shaft not in diagram so I sketched that in. that was the main thing I was missing).
The "Drive" gear/assemmbly drives the "Driven" gear/assembly.
THe "Drive" gear/assembly is more like part of the transmisson, and goes across the back of the engine. ( I will not see that unless pull engine and split cases, which is why I have always said that I never want to see my own transmission gears.)

The "Driven" gear/assembly drives the flange (15)that bolts up to the drive shaft u-joint.
The "Driven" gear/asembly is what points back toward the shaft, and can be accessed by pulling rear wheel, and taking off the drive shaft.

Okay, that is what others have said already .... but I was getting tripped up by the names and not understanding where the transmission entered into all this.

The Driven gear housing (18) and mounting bolts (22) are what can see when first pull back the boot, can be seen there by my thumb in my photo.

The flange (15) is what can get my fingers on when stick fingers in the boot.

Okay, now can better interpret and understand what folks are saying.

.

[tom203]

"If got fingers from both hands in there, can try harder to push things up/down and side-to-side, all seemed good there, but... could push things back and forth (rear to front), a good 3/8th inch.... maybe that is terrible... eh? Or maybe not, I see on part fisch digaram that are splines there to allow for such"

sounds like nut#17 has backed off in the driven gear assembly. The spline there is to allow fitup of that assembly - once tight it's not supposed to slide. The spline on prop shaft takes up variations of swing arm travel up and down

[bwringer]

"If got fingers from both hands in there, can try harder to push things up/down and side-to-side, all seemed good there, but... could push things back and forth (rear to front), a good 3/8th inch.... maybe that is terrible... eh? Or maybe not, I see on part fisch digaram that are splines there to allow for such"

sounds like nut#17 has backed off in the driven gear assembly. The spline there is to allow fitup of that assembly - once tight it's not supposed to slide. The spline on prop shaft takes up variations of swing arm travel up and down

Agreed -- you've found the problem. There should be no back and forth play at all. Most likely, The threaded portion of the shaft has broken off (the nut can't really back off that much, since there's no place for it to go). Time to remove the swingarm and see what's up.

Since the u-joint is directly in line with the swingarm pivot point, there is little to no length variation, and this is handled by the spline at the rear where the driveshaft slides into the final drive. At the front, there should be no back and forth play at all.

I've seen a repair where the owner had a machine shop drill and tap the shaft and install a washer and a large socket head bolt to retain the driveshaft flange. That seems to be a pretty good solution if you can't find a good used assembly.

[Redman]

Thanks Guys.

Good to use you guys indepth knowledge and my dumb labor to figure this out.

Nobody has said it, but I suppose I would be an idiot to keep riding it.

Now I start the hunt for replacement parts. And investigate interchangeability.

What I am looking for is "Driven gear assembly", but maybe that not what some ebay seller might call it. Maybe "Bevel Gear".

Have been looking some already. I see multiple "drive shafts" on most any day.
And sometimes see transmission shaft or gears. Havent seen "Driven Gear assembly".
Any suggestion for good ebay search terms....?

[kochic]

Post a list of what you need, I probably have all the part and even a new output seal (19 in your part list).
You already bought parts from me years ago if I remember well.
Marc

[Redman]

Post a list of what you need, ...........
You already bought parts from me years ago if I remember well.
Marc

PM sent. Thanks. (You must have lot better memory than I.)

[Redman]

GOt the replacement secondary driven gear set from Kochik yesterday.
Thanks, Great!



Got the swingarm off this evening.

Pulled it back and ... klunk ... plop....

out fell the nut with broken threaded shaft in it, and the output flange that is suppose to be held on the back of the engine by that nut ..... Exactly Brian's #2 scenerio.

QUOTE BRIAN: .................................................. ...........is when the threaded part of the shaft (two shafts are marked #1; I'm talking about the top one) breaks off. The output flange (#15) is still engaged with the splines and can't really go anywhere, and the nut is trapped between the output flange and the driveshaft flange
END QUOTE


Now, next, is to pull out the secondary driven gear set .....



But I have had more than enough of crawling around on the floor for a couple days.

I also need to reread the manual and GSShoppers tutorial about the various shims.... and see if I can just ignore that, cuz' I aint no machinist.
Well, maybe not ignore it entirely, but somehow kinda check to see if is not too bad.

.

[gordinho80]

Exact same problem I had. You'll have to loosen some of the motor mount bolts to get enough play to get the assembly out when you remove those 4 bolts. Checking the backlash and the gear contact is a pain.

[storm 64]

Dave, if you need any special tools or Dial indicators let me know. I might be in your neck of the woods this weekend. I think hurricane Harvey might have foiled my plans of heading east...

[Redman]

Dave, if you need any special tools or Dial indicators let me know. I might be in your neck of the woods this weekend. I think hurricane Harvey might have foiled my plans of heading east...

Great. Will PM.

[Redman]

Further development....

Further puzzlement....

Will see what find when get the driven gear set out and can see the bevel gear.

Dave