Hours to split case?

[glib]

There's a reputable machine / speed shop near me that specializes in GS drag bikes. I asked him for a quote to do a case swap and his estimate was $1000 with me supplying all gaskets and the removed motor

If he gets $85/hr that's about 11 hours. I'm sure he can do it in half that time and I'm also sure......... I could do it in a week and 11 hours the second time.

Thank you. That is also helpful. It certainly makes it worth considering.

[rapidray]

"Splitting the cases" most often means separating the bottom end case halves. You need to do this to get to the transmission, crankshaft, etc. This is the terminology used in the manuals.

You can remove the cylinder head and cylinders (the "top end") in the frame without splitting the cases.

But to split the cases (separate the bottom end halves), you must remove the engine from the frame.

You can replace the crankshaft and countershaft and some assorted other seals and o-rings without splitting the cases, so it's unclear what sort of oil leak might require this.

Or perhaps the OP means removing the cylinder head and cylinders, sometimes referred to as the "top end".

So Glib: what exactly is leaking and what work are we talking about here? You mentioned a valve, so can we assume you're talking about a top end?


If you've done it a couple of times before, I'd guess that the disassembly and assembly work of removing and replacing the cylinder head, cylinder, and pistons ("doing the top end") could be done in something like four to six hours, NOT including any cleaning, prep, or scraping. This is assuming you're organized, clean, and invisible gnomes make your parts magically clean the instant you put them down. (I bet the drag racers have this down to two hours or less...)

However, you'll spend at LEAST the same amount of time and probably a LOT more cleaning and scraping, depending on when the engine was apart last, and how well it was prepared at that time. Dealing with crusty diamond-hard 35 year old gaskets is the ridiculously tedious and time-consuming part of GS engine work. They're very simple engines, so disassembly and assembly are the fun, easy parts...

And I haven't even accounted for any time required to deal with broken bolts. If the engine hasn't been apart recently, it's a virtual certainty.

Not to mention all the time acquiring parts, etc. Getting the cylinders back onto the engine over the piston rings is possible with one person, but it's about 100x easier if you can recruit an assistant for a half hour or so.

If you're really talking about "splitting the cases" as in separating the bottom end case halves, then it depends on what you're in there to do. Plus, you can actually split the cases without removing the cylinder head, so perhaps that's an option.

On an 1100E you can NOT pull the crank without disassembling the entire engine. The cams, head, barrels and pistons HAVE to come off to get the crank out. IF, and it's a BIG if, you have NO ISSUES, broken bolts, etc..... it is a full day to remove exhaust, carbs, engine, split cases, reassemble engine and reinstall. 8 hours MINIMUM! I won't do it anymore unless it's my own stuff. I tell people to bring me the engine.
Ray.

[glib]

On an 1100E you can NOT pull the crank without disassembling the entire engine. The cams, head, barrels and pistons HAVE to come off to get the crank out. IF, and it's a BIG if, you have NO ISSUES, broken bolts, etc..... it is a full day to remove exhaust, carbs, engine, split cases, reassemble engine and reinstall. 8 hours MINIMUM! I won't do it anymore unless it's my own stuff. I tell people to bring me the engine.
Ray.

If you can do it in eight hours then it’s probably a winter project for me!

[storm 64]

If you can do it in eight hours then it’s probably a winter project for me!

Haha good one. A winter project for me too! Haha

[bwringer]

On an 1100E you can NOT pull the crank without disassembling the entire engine. The cams, head, barrels and pistons HAVE to come off to get the crank out...

Excellent point.

If you don't need to remove the crank, can you get the bottom case off an 1100E without removing the cylinder head? For example, if you need to address a transmission issue but the crank is fine. I know this is possible on the shafties anyway.

[dorkburger]

A million years ago, I pulled the bottom half of the crankcase on mine (1100ED) to reseal it.

[glib]

This is not the leaking motor but the leak as I recall is coming from between the cases under that eyelet.

E43A5A9E-C78A-4907-AE0A-1479538D32ED by Gary L, on Flickr

[bwringer]

Just sayin'... it's very verrrrrrrrrrry common for oil from further up to make its way to that eyelet or some other projection and then drip from there. Has someone done the ol' foot powder trick to verify the actual source of the leak?

Of course, it's also common for hamfisted wrench holders to gouge the cases in that area trying to pry the halves apart with a screwdriver (as specifically forbidden in the manual...).

If someone else has been in there already and caused this leak, then you'll need to factor in some unknown amount of time for dealing with various pecker tracks like this; it's doubtful this is the only damage.

Nothing about this project so far leads me to believe it would ever be profitable. Sure, it's all very do-able and fixable, but it's going to take an unknown amount of time, and quite a bit of skill. It's certainly the sort of thing I would help a friend with over the course of several evenings, but not something I would want to take responsibility for (for example, if it still leaks afterwards, are you on the hook to take it apart and try again?).

If you can come to some sort of agreement about who's responsible for what if and when things don't go well, and you don't mind potentially going way over the hours allocated as a learning experience, and the owner isn't in a hurry, then maybe you can pick up a few extra bucks and learn a thing or three in the process.

[Nessism]

I agree with Brian. Despite your best estimate on the repair time you can plan on multiplying that by 2.5 to get the REAL time it will take.

I had an 850 that leaked oil off one of the big 8mm crankcase screws that held the cases together under the crankshaft. Didn't want to split the cases just for that so I put a copper washer under the bolt head and the leak stopped. I figure that oil was getting between the case halves and running down that one bolt. So guess what I'm saying is that crankcase leaks do happen from time to time.

The other thing regarding a project like this is a question of how good is the engine overall? Just me maybe but if I'm going through the work to split the cases I'd just as well do a full engine teardown and replace all the gaskets and seals at the same time. That way there is nothing else that will be leaking in, at least, the near future.

[Nessism]

Nessism, I agree however.......

If the owner was going to pay someone to go through everything then I suggest he sell the pieces and buy a post year 2000 bike and he'll be $1000 ahead

Not to mention 20 plus HP, the ride quality of radial wheels, and modern suspension. His chances of a future oil leak will go to near zero.

...and no reason to have GS Resources either right? They are just old POS bikes not worth saving eh?

PS: I think we have had this conversation before...

PS2: I could have bought a nice modern bike for the money I spent on my KZ...but I don't care.

[Sandy]

...and no reason to have GS Resources either right? They are just old POS bikes not worth saving eh?

PS: I think we have had this conversation before...

PS2: I could have bought a nice modern bike for the money I spent on my KZ...but I don't care.

Could have bought a couple for the what I've put into my stock original GS1000 over the years. Oh wait ...... I did and the one that I've kept is the old GS.

[glib]

I spent a lot of time trying to identify the exact location of the leak though I don't know why it would start leaking from between the cases, it is and I bought the bike that way.
Looked like this when I bought it:
Blue at time of purchase by Gary L, on Flickr

Looked like this when I sold it:
IMG_1997 by Gary L, on Flickr

I offered to buy it for $400 since I know the current owner bought it for $600-800 and now it's in worse shape but he said he likes it and wants to fix it. So I checked with a local shop owner I met on a ride and he quoted $1200. I passed that on to the owner of the bike and told him that if he still had it after the riding season I may do it for $800. If I made $800 doing this it would be far and away the most I've made on any GS. I currently have another ED that I really want to put together nicely but then I'll have to get $2,200 -$2,500 to break even on parts. I digress...