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Master Link Sealant?
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Forum GuruPast Site Supporter
Super Site Supporter- Jun 2018
- 5634
- Mifflinburg, PA / Land of Tar & Chip
Master Link Sealant?
Shortly after I bought my bike @ 15 yrs ago, I had someone put on new chain and sprockets. (At least I have no memory of doing it myself) Any-who, there appears to be some kind of gunk on the master link which I can only guess is there to help the link from popping off. Any ideas what this is, and should I use it or something else when I reassemble.
Last edited by Rich82GS750TZ; 04-25-2020, 05:57 PM.Rich
1982 GS 750TZ
2015 Triumph Tiger 1200
BikeCliff's / Charging System Sorted / Posting Pics
Destroy-Rebuild 750T/ Destroy-Rebuild part deuxTags: None
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I've used clip master links for decades and never had one fly off.
Overkill for a rare issue1978 GS 1000 (since new)
1979 GS 1000 (The Fridge, superbike replica project)
1978 GS 1000 (parts)
1981 GS 850 (anyone want a project?)
1981 GPZ 550 (backroad screamer)
1970 450 Mk IIID (THUMP!)
2007 DRz 400S
1999 ATK 490ES
1994 DR 350SES
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You don't need to use thatCowboy Up or Quit. - Run Free Lou and Rest in Peace
1981 GS550T - My First
1981 GS550L - My Eldest Daughter's - Now Sold
2007 GSF1250SA Bandit - My touring bike
Sit tall in the saddle Hold your head up high
Keep your eyes fixed where the trail meets the sky and live like you ain't afraid to die
and don't be scared, just enjoy your ride - Chris Ledoux, "The Ride"
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Sigh, the great master link debate will now commence.
Use a rivet master link. It is far more secure than a clip link. I’ve seen dozens of failed links, in every case it was a clip. Some installed by professional mechanics.
There will be lots of people who haven’t had a clip link fail, and claim that therefore there’s nothing wrong with them, and blame any failures on improper installation. Bad logic and false facts.
If for some reason you have to use a clip link, the RTV on the clip is a good idea. I’ve seen a clip go missing and the RTV held the side plate on. Not something to rely on, but it gives you a chance.Last edited by RichDesmond; 04-25-2020, 07:47 PM.'20 Ducati Multistrada 1260S, '93 Ducati 750SS, '01 SV650S, '07 DL650, '01 DR-Z400S, '80 GS1000S, '85 RZ350
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Originally posted by RichDesmond View PostSigh, the great master link debate will now commence.
Use a rivet master link. It is far more secure than a clip link. I’ve seen dozens of failed links, in every case it was a clip. Some installed by professional mechanics.
There will be lots of people who haven’t had a clip link fail, and claim that therefore there’s nothing wrong with them, and blame any failures on improper installation. Bad logic and false facts.
If for some reason you have to use a clip link, the RTV on the clip is a good idea. I’ve seen a clip go missing and the RTV held the side plate on. Not something to rely on, but it gives you a chance.
Some race sanctioning bodies require either RTV or wiring the clip. I've never done either on a road bike. But if I was prepping for a long trip, I would.
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Originally posted by Cipher View PostHas anyone seen a link fail?
He was even less pleased when it was pointed out to him that cheaping out by joining two or more dog-ends of chain together with master links is not a good idea.
He tried to blame the mechanic who took it out for a road test, for ragging on it too much, but an autopsy showed the real culprit...---- Dave
Only a dog knows why a motorcyclist sticks his head out of a car window
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Originally posted by Grimly View PostI certainly have and it took out the crankcases of the first CB750 in my area. My mate was not pleased.
He was even less pleased when it was pointed out to him that cheaping out by joining two or more dog-ends of chain together with master links is not a good idea.
He tried to blame the mechanic who took it out for a road test, for ragging on it too much, but an autopsy showed the real culprit...
DO they still sell endless drive chains or was that just an oem ploy to get you to buy a priocier chain.
My bike came with one and would have required removing the swingarm so not just a pricier chain some hours of shop time for dealers.
112 link takasago o-ring it was thing of beauty.1983 GS 550 LD
2009 BMW K1300s
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Originally posted by Cipher View PostHas anyone seen a link fail? I have only once though. I still think RTV would be slightly more useful and slightly less superstitious than lighting a candle.'20 Ducati Multistrada 1260S, '93 Ducati 750SS, '01 SV650S, '07 DL650, '01 DR-Z400S, '80 GS1000S, '85 RZ350
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RichD, though you have much more experience then I ever will, I can tell you emphatically that in the ten years I have owned my 550, I have never had the clip fail. I think personal experience should count for something instead of being told how my facts and logic is wrongCowboy Up or Quit. - Run Free Lou and Rest in Peace
1981 GS550T - My First
1981 GS550L - My Eldest Daughter's - Now Sold
2007 GSF1250SA Bandit - My touring bike
Sit tall in the saddle Hold your head up high
Keep your eyes fixed where the trail meets the sky and live like you ain't afraid to die
and don't be scared, just enjoy your ride - Chris Ledoux, "The Ride"
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Originally posted by cowboyup3371 View PostRichD, though you have much more experience then I ever will, I can tell you emphatically that in the ten years I have owned my 550, I have never had the clip fail. I think personal experience should count for something instead of being told how my facts and logic is wrong
You're making the classic mistake of overvaluing direct personal experience, and because of that not correctly assessing risk. Very common, very human thing to do.
So, a beginners guide to risk analysis.
There are three main things to consider
1) The probability of a particular failure
2) The probability, given that failure, that we'll have a bad outcome.
3) The cost of mitigating that failure mode.
In our little example here, failure mode is the clip coming off and the chain separating.
The possible bad outcomes range from the bike coasting to a halt on the side of the road, necessitating a trailer ride home, to the chain cracking the crankcase and basically destroying the engine, to you getting rear-ended and dying, because it happened in heavy traffic with a car right on your tail.
The mitigation cost is the extra effort it takes to use a rivet link instead of a clip.
The crucial mistake you're making is assessing the failure probability based only on your own experience. Given that this is a relatively low probability event, that will always cause you to underestimate, because you have zero occurrences.
I have, between racing and spending many hours in a bike service shop, a lot bigger sample to draw on. I've never had a chain fail myself. I know many, many people who have never had one fail. But I also had seen a lot chains that did come apart, and I've seen some bad consequences as a result.
The other thing people get wrong is thinking that any failures of clip link are due to improper installation. That's something that I can't refute with absolute certainty, but consider this: I've had a clip come off (RTV held the side plate on, luckily). I know at least two professional mechanics that have had it happen. So, either it can come off when properly installed, or it's possible for even a pro to get wrong. Statistically it's basically the same.
Finally, we get to mitigation. It cost very little, in either time or money, to use a rivet link instead of a clip.
In the end, we have this.
A low, but not negligibly low, risk of failure. A possibility of serious negative consequences of that failure. And a cheap and easy way of virtually eliminating that risk.
Add all that up and to me, using a rivet link is a no-brainer'20 Ducati Multistrada 1260S, '93 Ducati 750SS, '01 SV650S, '07 DL650, '01 DR-Z400S, '80 GS1000S, '85 RZ350
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Originally posted by bonanzadave View PostEnd of discussion.....
1982 GS1100E V&H "SS" exhaust, APE pods, 1150 oil cooler, 140 speedo, 99.3 rear wheel HP, black engine, '83 red
2016 XL883L sigpic Two-tone blue and white. Almost 42 hp! Status: destroyed, now owned by the insurance company. The hole in my memory starts an hour before the accident and ends 24 hours after.
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Originally posted by RichDesmond View PostSorry, but your logic is wrong.
You're making the classic mistake of overvaluing direct personal experience, and because of that not correctly assessing risk. Very common, very human thing to do.
So, a beginners guide to risk analysis.
There are three main things to consider
1) The probability of a particular failure
2) The probability, given that failure, that we'll have a bad outcome.
3) The cost of mitigating that failure mode.
In our little example here, failure mode is the clip coming off and the chain separating.
The possible bad outcomes range from the bike coasting to a halt on the side of the road, necessitating a trailer ride home, to the chain cracking the crankcase and basically destroying the engine, to you getting rear-ended and dying, because it happened in heavy traffic with a car right on your tail.
The mitigation cost is the extra effort it takes to use a rivet link instead of a clip.
The crucial mistake you're making is assessing the failure probability based only on your own experience. Given that this is a relatively low probability event, that will always cause you to underestimate, because you have zero occurrences.
I have, between racing and spending many hours in a bike service shop, a lot bigger sample to draw on. I've never had a chain fail myself. I know many, many people who have never had one fail. But I also had seen a lot chains that did come apart, and I've seen some bad consequences as a result.
The other thing people get wrong is thinking that any failures of clip link are due to improper installation. That's something that I can't refute with absolute certainty, but consider this: I've had a clip come off (RTV held the side plate on, luckily). I know at least two professional mechanics that have had it happen. So, either it can come off when properly installed, or it's possible for even a pro to get wrong. Statistically it's basically the same.
Finally, we get to mitigation. It cost very little, in either time or money, to use a rivet link instead of a clip.
In the end, we have this.
A low, but not negligibly low, risk of failure. A possibility of serious negative consequences of that failure. And a cheap and easy way of virtually eliminating that risk.
Add all that up and to me, using a rivet link is a no-brainersigpic 82 gs1100ez 1168 Wiseco,Web .348 Cams,Falicon Sprockets,Star Racing Ported Head,1mm o/s Stainless Valves,APE Springs,Bronze Guides,etc.APE Billet Tensioner,36CV Carbs,Stage 3 Dynojet,Plenum w/K&N filter,Trued,Welded,Balanced,Crank w/Katana rods & Billet left end, FBG backcut trans, VHR HD Clutch basket,APE nut,VHR High volume oil pump gears,1150 Oil cooler,V&H Megaphone header w/Competition baffle,Dyna S,Coils,Wires,etc.Other misc.mods.
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