Split the cases or no??

[Rich82GS750TZ]

Excellent video documentation of this. Subscribed in case I ever have to do this myself. Please document installation of the new seal, c ring and the tiny c clip. Thanks for taking the time. Much appreciated.

[Grimly]

Nice video. I don't have a GS with a chain, so couldn't say whether the cases needed split or not, but I have a quite definite recollection of somebody on here making the same discovery years back, but probably not the same model.
I'd be leary of using Scotchbrite anywhere near a bearing - it gives off abrasive particles. Stick to solvents and ear buds.
The use of a sealer on the perimiter of the seal is a sound idea, no problems with that. Just enough and no more.

[NCGS]

Installing the seal is proving difficult. This is clearly the part that splitting the cases would help with but I’m not ready to go there yet. The seal is hard and covered in a thin layer of rubber. The cavity the seal goes into is so small that when I start to gently tap the seal into place with my PVC pipe and a mallet, the outer rubber covering catches on the engine case and starts to peel off as the seal starts to enter the cavity.

There aren’t any jagged edges on the case. I filed all those down. I think this is simply an issue of size/clearance. The seal is quite rigid so it won’t give enough to squeeze it in place. I’ve tried putting the seal in the freezer for a few hours hoping it would shrink but no luck.

I’m currently considering what else I might do. Any suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks.

[GregT]

You can put a taper on the inner edge of the seal to help it enter. I've done it freehand on a bench grinder in the past. Then lube, plenty of lube. What you use is personal preference but I've found rubbergrease good. It's the grease used when reassembling brake calipers. Something of a large diameter to drive the seal home is useful too. Piece of pipe with a squared off end or similar. Lube the ID of the seal too.

[Suzukian]

I think PVC absorbs much of the force that needs to pass through to the seal. A smooth metal tube would be better, a thick diameter wall will ensure no seal damage.

[NCGS]

You can put a taper on the inner edge of the seal to help it enter. I've done it freehand on a bench grinder in the past. Then lube, plenty of lube. What you use is personal preference but I've found rubbergrease good. It's the grease used when reassembling brake calipers. Something of a large diameter to drive the seal home is useful too. Piece of pipe with a squared off end or similar. Lube the ID of the seal too.

Thank you. I had thought about a taper. But I was thinking of filing the taper on the engine case, not the seal itself. But maybe your suggestion is better. Tapering the edge of the seal would be tricky though because it has that rubber cover on it. I'm not sure if you'd have to peel the rubber cover back to expose the hard edge of the seal, or whether you can just file through the rubber? I will try it with the seal that I've already compromised as a test case and report back. I'm waiting for a new seal (actually, 2 of them so I have another backup) to come in the mail anyway.

[GregT]

A bench grinder will cut through the rubber easily. I've tapered the rubber back to the underlying steel case.

[limeex2]

Freeze the seal overnight and heat the metal its going into. I used this method on bearings going into snowmobile suspension wheels. Mapp gas is hotter
than propane, heats up a little quicker. Plumbers use it to save time installing copper water lines.

[NCGS]

Well, gentlemen I am giving up. I tapered the seal, loosened the engine case bolts, froze the seal, and tried two different very slippery lubes (red o-ring grease and vegetable based tire lube that came with my No-Mar tire changer). There is no way this seal is going into that hole without taking the case halves apart. I don’t know how anyone has managed to do this before. There just isn’t enough clearance to get that seal in there without peeling the rubber off of it. I’m gonna clear space in the shop tomorrow and start working on getting the engine out.

[Suzukian]

That sucks. Before you split the case, I would take the rubber off the edge of the seal and see if it fits. If it doesn't, then you know the seal is an "interference fit type seal, and has to be clamped by the cases. If you feel the seal going in just a wee bit, I would try some "Flex-Seal" painted on the hole, and on the seal. A little goes a long way. That stuff dries to rubber. I have used it for many many things. There isn't much pressure there, it's the shaft that would leak. It could save you a lot of time.

[NCGS]

Now that’s an interesting suggestion. I actually know the seal will fit in the hole without the rubber on the outside. I know this because the first seal I tried, I tapped it in with my PVC pipe and hammer and it went right into the hole and peeled the rubber right off.

I had thought about cutting the rubber off just the top of the seal and installing it that way with some kind of sealant on the top. If I use Flex Seal I am definitely emailing them to try and get on TV

The reason I was thinking of cutting rubber off only the top is because I figured if it leaks anywhere it would be from the bottom because I don’t think massive amounts of oil are flying around behind that seal. I think oil just leaks out from behind the bearing.

I will give some thought to this idea before going any further. Thank you.

[NCGS]

Another thought along the same lines…the seal is made of metal and coated in rubber. If the rubber coating is too thick to slide into the cavity then why not cut the rubber off of the perimeter of the seal and use Three Bond 1184 instead of Flex Paste? Afterall, the engine cases are two metal parts sealed with Three Bond. So why wouldn’t Three Bond work to seal the space between the shaft seal and the engine case?

[Suzukian]

Use the product you think will work. Yamabond#4 is what I use to seal cases when I put them back together, or for troublesome areas, I have an 1973 MG Midget, and the Yamabond#4 sealed that engine right up after if "souped it up" and blueprinted it. I would go with the Yamabond#4 before the Flex Seal, it's been around for many, many decades. I don't know why I didn't think of that first, sorry.

[NCGS]

I finally got the seal installed! It took some creative modifications. In short, I tapered the edge, buzzed off some of the rubber (but not all) from the outside perimeter of the seal, smeared it with Three Bond 1184, and tapped it into place with a punch and hammer. Here’s a video explaining the details.

https://youtu.be/e-JtmJjDqck

[steve murdoch]

Thanks for the follow-up and congrats on getting it installed.