TheCafeKid

[hotbox05]

Distributors are major when you've seen the price of one for a yota

Did you read that off the brouchure? Cuz Toyota likes to make ALOT of bullsh!t claims like that. I dunno if you're familiar with their truck commericals but yeah that sums up pretty much how far Toyota will go to hype their stuff. And most of Toyota's part DON'T come from America. If they do I'd honestly like to know which ones? Cuz my girlfriend has a yota and mostly every part is stamped MADE IN JAPAN. It was also made in Japan. And as for half of Toyota's cars coming from America that's because its mostly Corrolla's which unfortunately they sell primarily in America. And if you ask me the only reason people buy them is because they're cheaper than everything else. I stand behind my statement of them being POS. Unless you've been a mechanic for a few years and haven't ever had to work on one.... Me I'll stick with my Ford truck. Atleast I know somewhere in America a worker is feeding his family

I do promotions for toyota year round. day in , day out.

corolla is the number one selling car in the entire world.

the f150 is the number one selling truck in the world.

I get my genuine toyota parts at list so they're cheap to me . and autozones crap is cheap for all cars.
oh , and I've been working on all of my family's cars since I was 14 , datsun , bmw , toyota , dodge , ford , and my old vw .
I've swapped motors in my supra for a turbo , I've swapped the motor in my moms dodge k car , done routine maintance on all cars , swapped heads on my bmw and changed way too many things on my dad's 5.0 f150.
I was in a toyota Technicians program at my jc and worked at a midas as a tech for a year and as a service writer for 6 months.



Toyota's made in america list reads
camry , highlander , corolla , tacoma , tundra , and about four lexus's



oh and just so you know toyota's cost more than any american car in the same segment.
whether it's full size car , midsize car , compact , sub compact , full size truck or mid size truck.



The new Tundra is 80% North american parts content (about 70% of which from america and 30% canada) and is built 100% in America .

Ford trucks are built in canada with mostly canadian parts content (half their cars are built in canada as well)

Chevrolet trucks and half their cars are built in canada with half canadian and half american parts content (their diesel engines as well as the aveo are made in japan)

Dodge trucks are built in mexico with engines from mexico and brazil (diesels are from the us but the truck is assembled in mexico) their new diesels transmission is also built by aisin IN JAPAN) (a lot of their cars are built in mexico too)



Trust me I may be biased towards Toyota but I'm not making any of this up.

In my line of work I have to know the good and bad about our products and the competition.

I also promote for dodge/chrysler/jeep , subaru and now ford.

Luckily my work is about 75% Toyota which I like because I KNOW their build quality is better



American cars for the most part have always been cheaper , offered more standard features and had a lower price. but their fit and finish is sub-par and their reliabilty on the whole is average or below average.

now there are some very crappy toyota/honda products and some very good chev/ford products.




There's a reason the Corolla is the number one selling car in the world and IT IS NOT PRICE

and there's also a reason the Camry is the number one selling car in america. (it took the reigns from the taurus about 12 years ago)




I've been car shopping with my parents since her 99 intrepid got totalled last week.

we Test drove The Camry , the Avalon , the new 08 Taurus , the new 08 Accord , the new 08 Altima, and the new 08 Malibu . we also looked at rav4 , the new 08 scion xB , the saturn aura , the Pontiac G6 and the Buick lucern


the Taurus was the only good midsize/fullsize american car out there . it was quiet , smooth , but a bit big(widest of the entire bunch but you couldn;t tell from the inside) but not too powerful.

the malibu was tiny (backseat was smaller than most coupes)

the lucern was nice but pretty grannyish

the accord was nice , quiet , powerful , but a bit too firm of a ride

the altima was the most expensive and the worst overall (very weird)

the Camry was nice , quiet , composed , powerful

the avalon was fantastic (base avalon mind you)

[hotbox05]

ok i take back ford fullsize trucks being built in canada but alot of their part content is canadian.

nothing against canada but it detracts from it being such an american car

and the reason ford sells so many trucks is that it's one of the cheapest half tons and was one of the first to set foot in different world markets. very good move by ford.



lets bick back and forth it's ok just no name calling.


bring it on ironrot , lol

[TheCafeKid]

Ok i gotta call a little bit of bull**** on this one....Chevy trucks are actually built a stones throw from my house. My grandfather worked for them for 39 years. Im not an American car fan..but NOONE builds trucks like they do.

[beergood]

My 95 F150 has been the most reliable, easy to work on vehicle I have ever owned. Parts are cheap and plentiful. It has been beaten up, dragged all over, and never complains. And I have the no frills work version.

I don't have a lot of experience with the various General Motors incarnations, but I have spent a lot of time behind the wheels of some Dodge trucks, and I can honestly tell you that if you gave me one, I would drive it as far as the first guy willing to buy it.

When I got out of college I bought a used 91 Volvo 740. It was 97, and it was a pretty dark era for the American car. I remember there not being a single US car that I was interested in owning. It was a festival of bland styling (Ford), crappy quality (Chrysler), and hideous plasticized cars (GM).

My Volvo had a super nice interior, and the boxy styling had grown on me. It had a lot of nice touches that made working on it pretty easy. For example, the space under the hood is cavernous, and it hinges open to a full 90 degrees. You could yank the engine out without ever removing the hood. But, parts were crazy expensive. A ball joint was $60, and a starter motor was almost $300. I can only assume that it was carved from mahogany with mother of pearl inlays.

My father's side of the family are Ford people, my mom's Chrysler. When I first drove the 740 over to my grandma's house one of my uncles gave me crap. "Why don't you buy something American?" he asked. My reply: "Why don't you make a good looking car that won't fall apart?". For the record, I do enjoy buying American when I can, but I also feel that as an American I owe it to myself to buy the best product for my money. We are living in a global market place, and if the American auto companies would have accepted this years ago and started making better cars, instead of falling back on guilt associated catch phrases they would be a lot better off today. Buying an inferior product rewards laziness and prolongs the manufacture of second class products.

Should I expect my neighbor to by my crappy roadside corn when the dude three houses down has a better crop for the same price?

Think of how long it took Cadillac and Lincoln to make cars that could even begin to compete with BMW, Audi and Mercedes. What the hell were they doing for the whole 90s?

I should make it clear here that I am not referring to auto laborers in this critique. I think that most wage workers would like to make the best product possible, but you can only produce work as good as your tools and design will allow.

Today there are some decent American cars. I'm still not crazy about Chrysler's styling but the quality is getting there, General Motors cars are finally being stripped of all the crazy plastic cladding. And Ford's are starting to look a little more sophisticated (i.e. German).

The thing is, they are just starting to respond to the benchmarks laid out by Japan and Europe.

Most cars are now made in the world market. American cars are full of foreign made parts, and many are assembled elsewhere. And many foreign cars are actually made here with American made parts and labor. The 'Buy American' campaign is just that, a campaign. For the most part, the people benefiting from that campaign are the upper class auto workers, which are the ones that drove the industry into the ground by ignoring decades worth of bellwethers. I would think a worker at the San Antonio Toyota Tundra (which is a pretty sweet truck) Plant would appreciate you buying a Toyota as much as a worker at the Ford Monroe Stamping plant wants to see you in an F150.

And anyone who has driven a Honda or Toyota for more than an hour can attest to the quality, fit and finish of their cars. Simply put, for the money they are just better. If you don't think so, I think you are fooling yourself.

So what it mostly boils down to, would you rather a mismanaging American executive get a portion of your money for doing a sub-par job simply because we were born between the same oceans, or would you rather a dude from Japan? Keep in mind, the upper class hasn't exactly been displaying a ton of loyalty to the lower class in recent years.

(* believe it or not, I don't consider myself a liberal, or a democrat. I just hate feelings of entitlement from the rich or poor)

All that aside, one of the best motors ever has got to be the VW boxer. I had two roommates that had beetles, and those motors (as well as everything else on the car) can be fixed with a screwdriver, adjustable wrench, tape and a hammer.

[Ironriot]

ok i take back ford fullsize trucks being built in canada but alot of their part content is canadian.

nothing against canada but it detracts from it being such an american car

and the reason ford sells so many trucks is that it's one of the cheapest half tons and was one of the first to set foot in different world markets. very good move by ford.



lets bick back and forth it's ok just no name calling.


bring it on ironrot , lol

Alright you asked for it :-D

[TheCafeKid]

I agree with you BG... I buy older European cars, why? cos i can get them cheap, and frankly, they are better than any American car that i can afford, plus most of the European cars have all the amenities that American cars are JUST now including as stock. My 82 Benz had power moon roof, seat heaters, leather, electronic climate control, and power windows and seats. It was an 82....try finding that in an American car of the time, if you can find one still on the road. Like I said, I paid 900 bucks for that car, to get the same or comparable equipment in an american car, i'd have to go up about 10 or 15 yrs, and tripple the cost, and half the quality. Trust me, I'd love to buy American, but the simple fact of the matter is just like you said, being an American, i want the best for my money. Germans and Swedes have been doing that for a LONG time. I think the best thing that ever happened to Chrysler was Daimler Benz buying them, of course now they dont own them any more, but the bar has been reset for them. Now if GM would get off thier asses and design a DECENT LOOKING automobile, i would be more interested. Ford and Chevy and Dodge trucks are all about the same in my eyes, but both Ford and Chevy cars have been bland and stagnate for some time.

[PAULYBOY]

Interesting reading the last couple pages of this thread. I started working in the automotive aftermarket in 85, when I go married, planned a family and realized the 80 hour chef work weeks, mostly nights, wouldn't work out. My father in law's family owned one of the 2 major parts store chains here in Cincy. After about 3 years of that, I started working for Mercedes, and have been here almost 18 years. I could tell u some secrets about Mercedes, but that wouldn't do anyone any good.
as for Volvo, they've been owned by Ford for a long time, just like Saab has been owned by GM for awhile, and the technological cross traabsferrance between these marks has been going on sinc the late 80's.
I reme,ber when the Camaro/Firebird plant in Norwood, Ohio shut down, seeing the bumper stickers of the unionized semi-literate espousing the necessity of buying Amurrican made products, and wondering where these cars got all their metric fasteners when they were being "made in America".
The outsourcing of parts, assembly and production has been an international process in one way or another since the late 60's.
Oh, and Cafe, unless you've got some buddies at Bob Ross in Centerville, when u need Mercedes parts, PM me.

[beergood]

Ford and GM's European purchases were very clever (also Chrysler's 'merger'). It took a little long to think of it, but it was a good idea for everyone. The American automakers could bring large scale manufacturing and distribution to the table, and we learned to make doors that close satisfactorily and radio knobs that don't feel like they cost 3 cents. Also it gave people that wanted to buy a prestige car (BMW, Audi, etc.) an option that still brought some revenue back within our borders.

Another thing I always found funny about the Buy American thing in the 80s-90s was the fact that almost every Chrysler had a Mitsubishi twin, and Fords were full of Mazda parts, but for some reason I don't remember anyone talking about that.

[TheCafeKid]

Interesting reading the last couple pages of this thread. I started working in the automotive aftermarket in 85, when I go married, planned a family and realized the 80 hour chef work weeks, mostly nights, wouldn't work out. My father in law's family owned one of the 2 major parts store chains here in Cincy. After about 3 years of that, I started working for Mercedes, and have been here almost 18 years. I could tell u some secrets about Mercedes, but that wouldn't do anyone any good.
as for Volvo, they've been owned by Ford for a long time, just like Saab has been owned by GM for awhile, and the technological cross traabsferrance between these marks has been going on sinc the late 80's.
I reme,ber when the Camaro/Firebird plant in Norwood, Ohio shut down, seeing the bumper stickers of the unionized semi-literate espousing the necessity of buying Amurrican made products, and wondering where these cars got all their metric fasteners when they were being "made in America".
The outsourcing of parts, assembly and production has been an international process in one way or another since the late 60's.
Oh, and Cafe, unless you've got some buddies at Bob Ross in Centerville, when u need Mercedes parts, PM me.

Dont have my Benzo anymore...sold it for 3 times what i paid for it...hehehe I would like to find another Benz deisel tho. Bad. But again, i buy em up cheap. Got an 85 Volvo wagon now, its ok, but i really liked that Benz. Shouldnt ever have sold it but i needed a truck at the time, so i did.

[Ironriot]

I do promotions for toyota year round. day in , day out.

Explains the bias

corolla is the number one selling car in the entire world.

Car sure. But it still plays second fiddle to the Fseries as the number one VEHICLE in the world. Corolla sales can't even touch this thing. Its the most sold vehicle in the US. And coming in a close second is the Silverado. And if GM would just combine the sales figures of the Silverado and the Sierra it would EASILY hold the title as most sold vehicle in the US. It would also do something no other car has ever done. Sold over 1 million in one year

the f150 is the number one selling truck in the world.

I get my genuine toyota parts at list so they're cheap to me . and autozones crap is cheap for all cars.

Not all of us are Toyota reps so parts are expensive for the average Joe. I used to work at AutoZone, and even their "crap" parts were expensive. We wouldn't even bother going to a dealer for the parts though. Most of the time they were so expensive it wasn't worth spending so much money on a car that wasn't worth it. Even the owners would tell us to just use junkyard parts cuz spending that much cash was pointless

oh , and I've been working on all of my family's cars since I was 14 , datsun , bmw , toyota , dodge , ford , and my old vw .
I've swapped motors in my supra for a turbo , I've swapped the motor in my moms dodge k car , done routine maintance on all cars , swapped heads on my bmw and changed way too many things on my dad's 5.0 f150.

I'm a gearhead too. I've swapped more motors than I can remember. I laugh at routine maintence. I can do that stuff with my eyes closed. Literally. By the way when you say too many things changed are you talking about spark plugs and air filters? Cuz 5.0 are about as hardy as they come. My brother had a 5.0 mustang that we absolutely beat the living **** out of, DAILY, and all it ever needed was the occasional oil change and new air filter. Sometimes we'd change the spark plugs hehe. You'd think daily clutch drops and taking it to the redline on a weekly basis would've killed that engine but NOPE the body rusted away before the engine could die. But that's because it was a car from Northern state. You can ask these Northern boys what winter salt does to bodies and frames.... Now that was a car 5.0. I'd think a TRUCK 5.0 would take a little more abuse and less parts then letting on.... I end this particular arguement with this, how many imports (japanese TCK I'm not directing this to your Battle tank) older than 20 years do you see on the road? Now how many Chevys and Fords? Arguement done

I was in a toyota Technicians program at my jc and worked at a midas as a tech for a year and as a service writer for 6 months.

Cool. I started working in a Mechanic shop back in the seventh grade. Not because I need money but because I wanted to work on cars. Its hard, sometimes back breaking work but I love it. Not sure what I'm gonna do with my life right now but I know its gonna be in the Automotive industry. One dream is to pound fenders out of sheetmetal. Not many youngsters out there that want to do that kinda work

Toyota's made in america list reads
camry , highlander , corolla , tacoma , tundra , and about four lexus's

Camry's and Corolla are made like in 15 different countries all over the US. Toyota just makes new factories wherever they sell them. But in the end where does all the money end up?

oh and just so you know toyota's cost more than any american car in the same segment.

Yup and they also try REALLY hard to unload those vehicles off on you. By offering TONS of incentives. They pass it off as taking care of the customer YEAH right. BTW did you know on average it takes only 10K or less to build a car? Especially one made with parts that come from a country without a minimum wage, and a company that pays half of what Union workers make.


Ford trucks are built in canada with mostly canadian parts content (half their cars are built in canada as well)

Well you already admitted to being wrong on this one.. But I'll poke fun anyways.... HAHAHAH WRONG. My truck is stamp Assembled in Kentucky. 100% American. My stepdad's old f150, bowling green; his new one, dearborn. Now which truck were you talking about?

Chevrolet trucks and half their cars are built in canada with half canadian and half american parts content (their diesel engines as well as the aveo are made in japan)

TCK proved you wrong on this one. Plus some Chevy trucks roll of the line right here in TEXAS. Besides I'd rather a Canadian be getting my money and an American company getting the rest of the profit. Also GM's canadian plants are ranked number one consistantly in the world for quality and well just about everything else. The only other time when they don't rank top is when GM's own South American plants beat them. Once again I'd rather a Mexican be getting my money with the same American company getting the profit. BTW I already knew that the Aveo was Japanese. Its probably just an Asian car rebranded by GM. Did you know that the Metro was just a Toyota rebranded by GM also?... Ha the Metro. Sorry disgrace of a car. As for the Duramax. Designed by Isuzu. I doubt made in Japan. Awesome engines BTW. Look for the new 1/2 Ton diesels coming out in 09. They're 100% American made and designed

Dodge trucks are built in mexico with engines from mexico and brazil (diesels are from the us but the truck is assembled in mexico) their new diesels transmission is also built by aisin IN JAPAN) (a lot of their cars are built in mexico too)

I don't care for Dodge. But everyone knows the Cummins. You want power thats where it is. I'd like to see Toyota make an equivalent

Trust me I may be biased towards Toyota but I'm not making any of this up.

I'm biased to American made but I ain't making this up either.

In my line of work I have to know the good and bad about our products and the competition.

My line of work included servicing all makes of cars. Japanese were the biggest pain to deal with. Along with newer Pontiacs. BUT I noticed a trend. Of the oldest of cars to go into my shop it was usually Oldsmobile and Buick. I always thought they were pieces of sh!t until I realized people took them in to be serviced because they would keep them. Yotas are usually junked after so many years.... As for other makes I never saw an F150 the whole time I was there. Which is a running recorded. Well maybe one. But that because we were getting it road worthy. It was a '66

Luckily my work is about 75% Toyota which I like because I KNOW their build quality is better

Did you know that Toyota recalls more vehicles than any other car manufacturer? Of course its never talked about because Toyota keeps it hush hush. After all they can't tarnish they're image of "bulletproof can't kill our cars or trucks". They usually perform the service whenever you take it in for that oil change. Or they send out vouchers for free maintence and then perform it without your knowledge. And why you ask? Because they've been running on the fact that people parrot whatever they hear, for the last 10 years. People have come to call Toyota more dependable then American made because the 90s were a down time for American car makers and yes Toyota's were better. Well it just became second knowledge that "toyota's are better" that sheeple would hear once and then repeat.

For instance even my girlfriend is squwaking that toyota's are better. Why? Because she hears the guy at the dealership say it and then repeats it. She doesn't know a single thing about cars. And her last car a 4runner was the biggest POS ever. It was newer than my truck and cost a WHOLE lot more than my truck but was nothing but problems. Her parents got her another yota and she still sqwaks "Toyota's are more dependable"

This all explains why Toyota tries VERY hard to protect its image.

Problem with the average American? he's to lazy to do research. He just hears something on TV or watchs a Toyota truck commercial and repeats it. He is basically a sheep. He see's that buying Yota is the "in" thing to do and does it. And Oh trust me this country is motivated by fades, whats "in". (Minivans, SUVs, hybrids) He doesn't actually know anything he just hears something and parrots it back

American cars for the most part have always been cheaper , offered more standard features and had a lower price. but their fit and finish is sub-par and their reliabilty on the whole is average or below average.

Best riding vehicle I've ever ridden in besides a Cadillac? A new F150. Don't believe me? Get in one. They have a smooth as hell ride. Yeah its pretty cheap, 4 door two tone paint 4.6L = 24,000 brand spanking new but I'll be the first to tell you the fit and finish on that vehicle is bar none top quality. And thats because I'm a Chevy guy! I can also back up this claim on the new Silverado and its counterparts the SUVs. Now you try telling me that those things aren't dependable. The LS engine will whip the **** out of anything in its category in dependibility. Not to mention power output and gas economy. New V8 Silverado's get better gas mileage then some Toyota 6 cylinders!

In the end I leave with saying this. Don't believe everything you read about anything. ESPECIALLY consumer reports Toyota's been known to make generous non-profit donations to these..... Investigate everything.

[Ironriot]

Had to cut some stuff out the post was too long

[Ironriot]

I agree with you BG... I buy older European cars, why? cos i can get them cheap, and frankly, they are better than any American car that i can afford, plus most of the European cars have all the amenities that American cars are JUST now including as stock. My 82 Benz had power moon roof, seat heaters, leather, electronic climate control, and power windows and seats. It was an 82....try finding that in an American car of the time, if you can find one still on the road. Like I said, I paid 900 bucks for that car, to get the same or comparable equipment in an american car, i'd have to go up about 10 or 15 yrs, and tripple the cost, and half the quality. Trust me, I'd love to buy American, but the simple fact of the matter is just like you said, being an American, i want the best for my money. Germans and Swedes have been doing that for a LONG time. I think the best thing that ever happened to Chrysler was Daimler Benz buying them, of course now they dont own them any more, but the bar has been reset for them. Now if GM would get off thier asses and design a DECENT LOOKING automobile, i would be more interested. Ford and Chevy and Dodge trucks are all about the same in my eyes, but both Ford and Chevy cars have been bland and stagnate for some time.

Daimler buying Chrsyler was the worst thing that could've ever happened to Chrysler. Back before daimler bought them they were making the most money of any car company. The minivan was a cash cow and they were producing cars for the lowest amount of money while returning healthy profits. Ten years later Diamler's driven Chrysler into the ground and is gonna leave them high and dry.

[Ironriot]

Ford and GM's European purchases were very clever (also Chrysler's 'merger'). It took a little long to think of it, but it was a good idea for everyone. The American automakers could bring large scale manufacturing and distribution to the table, and we learned to make doors that close satisfactorily and radio knobs that don't feel like they cost 3 cents. Also it gave people that wanted to buy a prestige car (BMW, Audi, etc.) an option that still brought some revenue back within our borders.

Another thing I always found funny about the Buy American thing in the 80s-90s was the fact that almost every Chrysler had a Mitsubishi twin, and Fords were full of Mazda parts, but for some reason I don't remember anyone talking about that.

My truck has a Mazda trans. Although I'd rather have a World Class T5 that came in everything Ford made up until the late 90s. Those are made in America btw

[Ironriot]

Interesting reading the last couple pages of this thread. I started working in the automotive aftermarket in 85, when I go married, planned a family and realized the 80 hour chef work weeks, mostly nights, wouldn't work out. My father in law's family owned one of the 2 major parts store chains here in Cincy. After about 3 years of that, I started working for Mercedes, and have been here almost 18 years. I could tell u some secrets about Mercedes, but that wouldn't do anyone any good.
as for Volvo, they've been owned by Ford for a long time, just like Saab has been owned by GM for awhile, and the technological cross traabsferrance between these marks has been going on sinc the late 80's.
I reme,ber when the Camaro/Firebird plant in Norwood, Ohio shut down, seeing the bumper stickers of the unionized semi-literate espousing the necessity of buying Amurrican made products, and wondering where these cars got all their metric fasteners when they were being "made in America".
The outsourcing of parts, assembly and production has been an international process in one way or another since the late 60's.
Oh, and Cafe, unless you've got some buddies at Bob Ross in Centerville, when u need Mercedes parts, PM me.

Lets hear those secrets PB lol

[beergood]

This is a little tongue-in-cheek, but I have a theory why Oldsmobiles and Buicks last longer than most other cars.

The average owner of those two brands is about 65. And one thing I know about old people (especially those that remember the great depression), is that they drive like Scotsmen and are sticklers for routine maintenance.

I must admit, my buddy's new F150 is really nice. I can't wait to buy one, in about 10 years, when I am done with my current one. But it can't hold a candle to my brother-in-laws BMW 7 series. But that isn't even comparing apples and oranges, that's comparing dodgeballs to birthday cake.