Painting my 450

[rustybronco]

Pop open the tin, stir the contents for 5 minutes, pour it into the measuring cup, lightly shake the hardener and add the hardener to what's already in the mixing cup and stir again.

[pete]

Ok, I just realised I need to ask possibly the stupidest question...

The only paint I've used so far has been house paint or POR 15 paint, which means you open the tin and stir before using.

With the 2K stuff, am I safe to assume I simply open the tin, pop it and the hardener/reducer in the mixing cup and then stir? As in I don't need to stir it in the tin?

They don't mention anything about stirring anywhere that I can see...

[pete]

Ok, I called and spoke with the tech. guys where I bought the paint today and the acrylic clear is going to be no good, useless with fuel. Apparently they get a lot of guys restoring bikes that never ride them which is why they let me buy it... at least I have gun cleaner now with the acrylic thinners

Anyway, I tried the other place for the Omni stuff but once again everything is in litre containers, so that was over $110 just for the clear and hardener, and the reducer was on top of that so I didn't even bother asking...

I called the original place back because I couldn't remember what the price was and it ended up as $90 for the clear and hardener, and if I need any reducer I can use the one I already have with the base coat, so I'm gonna pull the trigger on that tomorrow and the house mate will pick it up for me seeing as he works literally around the corner from them.

That should get the paint side of things sorted...

I got down to the garage tonight to start sanding the tail piece and I think that's all I'll be doing between now and painting day...

Here's how it set overnight:



And after about 45 minutes of sanding with 240 grit:



What's level there is very smooth, but it clogs the paper up in about 30 seconds to a minute of sanding. I tried wet sanding but that seemed to make it a bit worse, so I went back to dry sanding.

I think I'll be able to get it reasonably flat and smooth but I think there will still be some areas needing a bit more of a build up.

If that's the case, I've still got probably a quarter to a third of the putty tin left so I should be able to build it up a bit more in the low areas.

As it stands now I'm going to lose Wednesday night this week as I have to work, but that means I may not end up at work on Thursday and I may get some daytime time on it depending how things go. Not holding my breath though...

[pete]

Hey Pete, good luck with the paint. I don't think anyone has mentioned this and if so, or you have it taken care of, even better, BUT
A reaction of compressing air is WATER. Hence the reason to oil pneumatic tools with every use to prevent rust. If you don't have them, some inline water separators/filters will be needed. Also, open your valve at the bottom of your tank briefly to let any water out. You spent a lot of money on paint and supplies. It would be a shame to have water droplets in your paint every time you sprayed...it creates what I believe are called fish eye's in the paint finish.
Anyway, hope I helped out.

Brad

Thanks Brad, I have seen water filters but hadn't given it much thought at this point in time, so I will endeavour to pick one up before painting as what you say makes sense.

I've definitely seen water dripping out when I open the tap on the bottom after finishing with the compressor...

Hey Pete, good luck with the paint. I don't think anyone has mentioned this and if so, or you have it taken care of, even better, BUT
A reaction of compressing air is WATER. Hence the reason to oil pneumatic tools with every use to prevent rust. If you don't have them, some inline water separators/filters will be needed. Also, open your valve at the bottom of your tank briefly to let any water out. You spent a lot of money on paint and supplies. It would be a shame to have water droplets in your paint every time you sprayed...it creates what I believe are called fish eye's in the paint finish.
Anyway, hope I helped out.

Brad

[pete]

Ok, so Dale's been extremely helpful offline via PM's and the plan at the moment is for me to call the tech. guys back tomorrow morning to discuss the acrylic and find the re-coat time etc.

Depending on the outcome of that, I'll call another place that's a bit further away to see if they have some more suitable quantities of a 2K clear available. They stock Omni which apparently is a value line PPG paint, so if they can do that in a reasonable quantity that should make it affordable for me

If I go down that path, then I've only wasted the $23 for the acrylic lacquer as I can use the acrylic thinners for gun cleaner which I need to get yet.

On another note, the house mate came home bearing gifts this morning:



And then I figured I'd best start playing with toxic fumes and get some putty on the tail piece. I actually didn't realise how bad this would smell until I was into it. Fortunately my wife was already in bed because some of the tasty aroma made it into the house

It was already clean but I gave it a quick rub over with metho to be sure and got the putty and applicator ready and donned the disposable gloves:



Then I set to it, and I just smooched on as much as I could get trying to keep within the 3mm maximum thickness they recommend to fill in the bits here and there that need to be raised:



As you can see, there's way more on there than I need and the right side was sagging and drooping off the bottom but it wasn't affecting the bits that needed to stay bulked up, so that's cool.

I put a heap more on than I needed on purpose to try to get a thick enough coat that I can sand it all back and leave a thin layer of putty over the fibreglass for smoothness, yet a thick enough layer to build up the areas that need building up.

It'll take 2 to 4 hours to dry, so by the time I'm back at it again (hopefully tomorrow night), I'll be able to start sanding and see how it goes.

[pete]

Thanks Dale, I think at this point I really just need to take a deep breath and relax.

I'll call their technical guys tomorrow and have a chat and see what they say without hassling them. I'm not the sort to start laying into them about giving me the wrong thing or anything like that, I'm probably not pushy enough at all really After all, purchasing the acrylic was half my fault anyway...

The brief mention I found with the Dura-lac 2000 is that it is an acrylic lacquer...

I guess worst case scenario is using the thinners for gun cleaner as you say, forking out for the 2K clear, and learning a lesson with the acrylic.

The biggest problem with buying the 2K clear at the time was the large quantity I needed to buy which was the smallest they sell, but I'll deal with that if need be...

I've got next Saturday set aside for bike day again and was going to tackle the gun cleaning then. I have some spare galvanised steel which I know isn't the best surface for this primer etc. but will at least give me a small surface to lose my spray painting virginity on. If I do something really screwy it has a back side too

That should give me time to give it a go I would think. I have to duck out and pick up my seat foam but I can work around that.

Thanks again Dale

[rustybronco]

Here, they're really setup to supply auto body painters who know what they're doing, not the general public who are clueless.

That's pretty much how the paint suppliers are around here as well. their main purpose is to supply the trades people, not the walk in customers.

My main concern right now is the clear.

Will the acrylic be ok? Is it no good? Will it go on ok but get destroyed with a drop or two of fuel?

Either way, I'm going to call them back on Monday to find the re-coat time (the window for top coating) of the 2K colour and see how long they say I should leave it before applying the acrylic clear.

Pete, vehicles have been painted with lacquer paints for years and that's if dura-lac is even an acrylic lacquer. even the car factories used lacquer at one time, so I don't think that will be a deal breaker if it is what you have and budgeted for.

but, in my opinion you already have the 2K primer, a proper base coat material and now you intend on using a clear which may or may not be fuel proof/resistant? after all the designing of the layout, the prep work needed to get it to the base coat stage, why would would you not use a proper 2K clear as the base material recommends using? if the stuff wasn't haz-mat, I'd pop a 1/2 litre in the mail for you and you'd be done with it.

As far as fuel resistant, I asked the question and they said as good as any other clear, so I assume yes to that one...

I really hope it's not wrong because I won't get a chance to swap it before my week off...

I just knew I should've started this thread before asking advice from local paint shops, just had a feeling it was gonna go bad... go with your instincts Pete!

Pete, I don't think your paint shops would give you bad advice. if they say it will work, more than likely it will be just fine. ask them, don't waste their time and you'll should have your questions answered.

you could always clean up a piece of sheet metal and start painting it from the primer stage to clear as you do need practice; correct? or, the thinner bought for the clear could always be used as a gun cleaner.

never worry until you have to... it's all only pure speculation at this point. that dura-lac could be the greatest thing since sliced bread!

[pete]

And I completely neglected to reply in regards to the striping comments

I'm not 100% sure on stripe width or placement yet, I plan on doing some mock ups with the cheapo masking tape this week to work it out. It did look pretty good with two just the width of the tape though which is 24mm.

Over the years, I have discovered I'm extremely decal challenged, and I still have issues getting rego stickers on car windows without leaving bubbles.

I think it will be much safer for me to mask and paint the stripes.

My intention is to make up some templates out of cardboard that I can hold on the front, middle, and rear of the tank and tail piece to make sure I lay the masking out centred, straight, and even. By doing that in advance it means I won't be rushing on the day.

[pete]

And just to add insult to injury I can't find tech. data anywhere for that Dura-Lac stuff! But I did at least run across a thread on a local car forum where the reports of using it over the top of 2K base are promising, but they don't say anything about times...

I just knew I should've started this thread before asking advice from local paint shops, just had a feeling it was gonna go bad... go with your instincts Pete!

[pete]

Getting some good masking tape shouldn't be an issue. If all else fails I can get some off eBay if I can't get back to the refinishers.

Having said that, my house mate works around the corner from them, so while it would be unfair to ask him to do anything like talk to them about the clear coat, he would be more than happy to duck in and grab some masking tape for me. He's offered to do that sort of stuff lots of times and he usually picks up the POR 15 stuff from there for me.

My main concern right now is the clear.

Will the acrylic be ok? Is it no good? Will it go on ok but get destroyed with a drop or two of fuel?

Either way, I'm going to call them back on Monday to find the re-coat time of the 2K colour and see how long they say I should leave it before applying the acrylic clear. I'm actually going to call their other store like they told me as the more technical guys work there. Unfortunately it's way the other side of town so was impractical for me to get to that store when buying the paint. I also didn't realise that's where the technical staff are...

Also, as a little side note, I'm going to check how much POR 15 Blackcote I have left as I should probably be doing the tail light bracket and exhaust bracket with that to match the frame etc.

Yes, indeed, Pete's stripes are a little wide, I think, but in theory, if he could find that width white tape, he could apply it, as opposed to painting, then clear over the whole bang shoot, once sanded smooth and polished, you would never tell the difference, many vehicles are done that way, the graphics are decal sets, cleared over, a lot less fuss and no worries about lines bleeding.

you know, I washed my front fender really well the other day before I got ready to strip the paint and the white stripes in the stock paint job were actually not painted on. All the pin striping I see seems to be laid on plastic tape of some sort. This actually has been what I've seen on most cars that have thinner pinstripes too.

Pete, what you want to do, is see if you can get your hands on some fine line tape, 3M make it, as do a few others, it comes in 3mm and 6mm width, and is like a plastic type tape, leaves the edges razor sharp.
Lay the edges with that, then the cheap masking tape inside of that.
If you look at my thread where I painted my front wheel, it is the thin green stuff between the cheap and nasty masking tape.
As I said, I know nothing of this dark art of stunning paint work, but just a thought, if you can't get the fine line tape, what would stop you from using something like electrical insulation tape to tape the edges, it is also, not porous and should leave a clean line, even your garden variety selotape or packaging tape, there are so many tapes that are plastic based and non porous that can be used just for the edging.....I don't know, maybe the gurus can comment and educate me why not, if not.

[pete]

Woah lots of replies... this is good thanks guys

Pete, you can never go wrong with the manufacturers recommendations. if they say you can re-coat or top coat up to 24 hours, then you have at least 24 hours to tack it off and re-coat. read the Technical Data Sheets.

Hmmm I can't see a re-coat or top coat time in the tech. data? I see flash off time, tape time, and drying time but no re-coat time. I may have to call them on Monday to check.

as long as it's dust free and the solvents don't cause the ink to run, I don't see an issue with it. I've painted many things using newsprint as masking paper in the past. just watch out for the dust...

Cool, there's no dust on the glossy pages but I can put enough layers down that if the ink runs on the top layer or two that's as far as it will go.

I use a nail driven into the end of my saw horse to hang my gun when not in use. if the distance between gun body and the trigger is wide enough I even 'hang' it on the back of a chair from time to time.

Makes perfect sense! No special bracket required

http://i594.photobucket.com/albums/tt26/starpoint73/GS450/The%20Paint%20Job/IMG_3442.jpg

are you sure this is a fuel resistant paint? why do I get the feeling it's acrylic lacquer not a ??-urethane? possibly because it says dura-lac?

BeroBase 500 http://debeer.com.au/products/basecoats/berobase

Ok, it's acrylic clear, I thought I'd mentioned that in the first post but maybe I missed it.

They don't "recommend" using it over the 2K base, but the cost of the 2K clear was getting prohibitive to the budget and they said the acrylic will definitely work on the base if I let the base sit over night. That means I *really* need to check the re-coat time...

As far as fuel resistant, I asked the question and they said as good as any other clear, so I assume yes to that one...

I really hope it's not wrong because I won't get a chance to swap it before my week off...

Is it really bad or does it mean I just need to take care and keep fuel off as much as possible (which I tend to do regardless)?

Once this painting is done, my guess is at least another month before any fuel will be in the tank given the way this project's been going. If I do make it by the end of the year, I suspect it'll be being registered late November or early December.

I'm pretty excited to see how you turn out here Pete.
Also, I forget where, but I read you can use aluminum foil to mask off large areas.
I've done a little painting and never once had it make the ink run on the foil, or had it soak through!

Cheers mate! I really want it to work out

That's not a bad idea actually! Will keep that in mind as I continue through these replies...

Here is one tip I read, but have not tried, for masking off areas.

Once you have laid out the tape to mask the edges, hit the area to be painted with light coat of the color under the masked area. So for your project, assume that you are painting the white stripes first and then masking off the white stripes to lay down the red.

Once you have papered and taped the white stripes, spray a light coat of white paint over the taped edge. Let it dry a bit, then proceed to paint the red.

The initial coat of white is supposed to help seal off the masking tape, to reduce or eliminate bleed through. Basically, the white bleeds through and prevents the red from doing do.

Good luck.

Interesting tip! That does make some sense too actually. Let any potential pores in the masking material be filled with the bottom colour so the top colour hopefully has to just sit on top without bleeding through.

I am doing white over red though... I know it will probably mean another coat will be required, but it would mean a hell of a lot of extra white would be required for it.

Also, I see guys like Larry do white as the last coat, so there should be no dramas in my mind coverage wise as long as I remember the red will probably show through the first coat or two and don't overdo the amount of paint.

Yeah this trick also works with clear.A light coat clear over the masking stopped the bleeding of the top colour.I was using rattle can lacquer so a slightly different process.Did it with my 81GS650E.Sadly I have no pics of that bikeThe light silver with a real dark blue was so nice.

Thanks for the confirmation Greg.

I won't need to do any masking for the clear but I'll use the tip for the white on red.

So just to clarify on this...

Do the 2 to 3 coats of red waiting for flash off time between, wait for the tape off time then tape, do one more quick red one along the masking tape, wait flash off time, then go to it with the white. I'll just have to make the gun cleaning wait until after tape off time, then clean before doing the white.

Hi Guys

this site isn't realy photo friendly to attachments, I guess I'll have to set up a photbucket account or simialr, but I will post of afew photos of my most recent projetcs, promise.

Hi Pete

I guess I wasn't really following the masking tape/material questions all that well. As I understand your posts you want to paint mainly red, with a couple of white stripes? Forget the butchers paper, aluminum foil, masking materials, etc

the very easiest way to do that, and get fabulous results, is to simply paint all the parts white, let the white colour coat set up, use pro painters tape to lay down your stripes by taping off exactly where you want your stripes to be, then spray the entire part red however many coats, then while the red colour coats are still wet, peel the pro painters tape off at a bit of an angle exposing the white stripes, then clear everything.

taking the pro painters tape off while the overcoat is still wet prevents any flaking or cracking of the paint, leaves a really clean crisp stripe line, and then the clear overcoat levels everything perfectly smooth.

your local autobody paint supplier should set you up with the pro painters tape, some solid advice on the materials you are working with, and some proper cone paint filters as well as an inexpensive paint gun stand typicaly made of wire. Don't forget the "gun wash" to clean out the gun between white/red/clear.

Paul

Yeah attachments are a bit limited, Photobucket or similar definitely makes it easier And yes we'd like to drool over you paintwork... well pictures of it anyway

As I said above, I'll need to do white over red... I do agree in thoery with what you and MisterCinders said about red over white (makes sense light over dark is easier), but that was going to blow costs out more and I did know enough that white over red isn't a show stopper, I just need to be careful how I do it.

Thanks for the clarification on when to take the masking off too, that helps a lot. I think I'll have to get some different masking tape too, this stuff is just universal and very cheap, it's not special pro tape or anything like that.

I think there's a big difference in auto paint stores between here and the US.

Here, they're really setup to supply auto body painters who know what they're doing, not the general public who are clueless. I have a feeling the one I went to may not be the ideal one for the public here either, and I think there's a better one that's just a bit far away from me to be practical.

I successfully got all my POR 15 stuff from these guys, but I didn't need any advice on that stuff, I knew what I was doing.