Carburetor balance tools (knowledge so far and continued discussion)

[bwringer]

I don't see what point you don't see, you see?

About $100 and five minutes of time spent ordering will buy a compact precision tool that can't destroy your engine by sucking fluid, that will last a lifetime, and can be stored in a drawer or easily transported. http://www.carbtune.com/

So, what's the point of spending days and at least half the money running around town to hardware stores and aquarium shops to cobble together an awkward homemade fluid manometer?

Yes, I know it can be quite accurate and it works fine. But it's potentially dangerous to your bike, inconvenient, difficult to store, impossible to transport, and in the end -- it's a mostly pointless waste of time and money that would be far better spent on a Morgan Carbtune.

It's not entirely pointless -- I understand that there's something to be learned here about physics, and there are enjoyable aspects to building things yourself.

[gssuzukixxx]

I bought the Carbtune kit from Ireland but have not used it yet.

The question I have is; isn't there some air leakage around the throttle slide (early GS carbs) when you take the top of the carb off to make adjustments? That would throw the vacuum reading off for that carb wouldn't it? I thought about squirting some oil around the slide to temporariy seal the slide to the body.

Just a thought.

Brian

[Nessism]

I bought the Carbtune kit from Ireland but have not used it yet.

The question I have is; isn't there some air leakage around the throttle slide (early GS carbs) when you take the top of the carb off to make adjustments? That would throw the vacuum reading off for that carb wouldn't it? I thought about squirting some oil around the slide to temporariy seal the slide to the body.

Just a thought.

Brian

No worry about syncing VM carbs with the tops off; apparently vacuum losses are not enough to worry about.

Regarding making your own sync gauges, I applaud you guys that give it a go. I made some mercury gauges years ago, back when mercury could be purchased over the counter, and they worked great. Mercury gauges were the standard for years and they can not be transported easily yet that never was a deal breaker for most of us.

[gggGary]

The carb tune loks very nice especially compared to the dial style ones on fleabay for $110-$120 I think I got mine like the ones on ebay now for about $50 a few years ago and am happy with how it works. On any of the dial ones I have used getting the restrictor valves set just right is the trick to good results.

[renobruce]

About $100 and five minutes of time spent ordering will buy a compact precision tool that can't destroy your engine by sucking fluid, that will last a lifetime, and can be stored in a drawer or easily transported. http://www.carbtune.com/

So, what's the point of spending days and at least half the money running around town to hardware stores and aquarium shops to cobble together an awkward homemade fluid manometer?

Yes, I know it can be quite accurate and it works fine. But it's potentially dangerous to your bike, inconvenient, difficult to store, impossible to transport, and in the end -- it's a mostly pointless waste of time and money that would be far better spent on a Morgan Carbtune.

It's not entirely pointless -- I understand that there's something to be learned here about physics, and there are enjoyable aspects to building things yourself.

I'll have to agree to all the above. For my time and money, there is nothing easier to use or more accurate than a carbtune. Period. Yes, it's not cheap, but it's a tool that will last you a lifetime.

[John Mellencamp]

So is the carbtune equal or better to an TecMate CarbMate Carburetor Calibration Tool TS-111 ?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330413330786&ru=http%3A%2F%2Fmotors.shop.ebay.com%3A80%2F__%3F_from%3DR40%26_trksid%3Dm39%26_nkw%3D%2509330413330786%26_fvi%3D1&_rdc=1

[renobruce]

So is the carbtune equal or better to an TecMate CarbMate Carburetor Calibration Tool TS-111 ?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...fvi%3D1&_rdc=1

That looks pretty cool, and I'll bet it's accurate. But it only does two carbs.

[Rover]

Motion Pro

Motion pro Mercury gauge's I've been sitting on,After I clean my carbs I'll finally break it out.

[Steve]

... This is after I built a 6 gauge set for tuning KZ1300's. ...

Funny, that's why I got my first (and so far, only set of gauges ) set of gauges, back in 1979.
I splurged and got the 6-column set of mercury sticks, I think the label on them says "Carb Sync GT".

Yes you can only do 2 carbs at a time, but it only has 1 piece of tubing (so no joins / leaks). ...

The "no joins / no leaks" concept has drawbacks that far outweigh the advantages. See comments below.

So I am bouncing around the idea of buying the carbtune one, building one or just borrowing one. What I am wondering is how often does this need to be done to a bike? is it a once every 10 years sort of thing or is it something that should be done with each oil change? Also is this something that needs to be done to newer bikes as well or is it just for old bikes with multiple carburetors? And finally has anyone ordered off this carbtune web page, their checkout process seems a little sketchy?

To borrow one, you will have to know who has one. Why not get one for yourself?

How often it needs to be done? Basically every time the valves are adjusted or the carbs are separated in the rack. Valves are supposed to be adjusted (or at least checked every 4,000 miles. For some, that's several years of riding, but I have almost that much logged already this year.

Yes, newer bikes need it too. Even if they are fuel injected. If they have more than one throttle butterfly to control air flow to the engine, they need to have the opening of those butterflies synchronized so they all open the same amount at the same time.

Virtually everyone orders their Carbtune from the manufacturer's page. There is a company in California that orders a few at a time and tries to stock them, not sure if they have a markup on the price or not. I have not heard of any problems ordering straight from Carbtune. Right now, the exchange rate is rather favorable, meaning that it will only cost you $87.34 as of today, 15 MAR 2010.

I'll have to agree to all the above. For my time and money, there is nothing easier to use or more accurate than a carbtune. Period. Yes, it's not cheap, but it's a tool that will last you a lifetime.

I have finally had the pleasure of using one and was able to compare it to my mercury sticks. Yes, it's easy. Yes, it's accurate. Yes, it will probably last a lifetime. Expensive? See above, it's less than $88.

So is the carbtune equal or better to an TecMate CarbMate Carburetor Calibration Tool TS-111 ?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...fvi%3D1&_rdc=1

Four our bikes, I would say the Carbtune is FAR better than the TecMate unit.

The TecMate will only do two carbs at a time. Once you see how the vacuum levels interact with each other when using a four-channel system, you will wonder how anyone can possibly manage with a two-channel unit. If you were to adjust #1&2 so they were 'perfect', then check #1 against #3, would you adjust #3 or #1? Then you throw #4 into the picture. You have to keep switching back and forth, checking ALL combinations of two cylinders (yeah, there are only six of them, but that's still a lot of switching, because you will have to do them multiple times) until you get them all where they should be. By simply looking at the level of four indicators at the same time (does not matter whether it's bouncing needle gauges, stainless rods, oil or mercury), you can see exactly what to change and how much.

.

[Skateguy50]

I made some myself... pics would be good I know... but basically used 4 glass jars that had tubes go to the bottom of one to the bottom of the next and had a valve at the end of that to prime it so to speak to make sure the tubes between them had the oil in it. The most of the jars where filled with air and had another tube connected near the top of the jar to draw suction from the air with the oil at the bottom. The top was just filled with lots of hot glue and taped off to create the seal.

The lines going to the carbs need to be the same length and the jars need to be level so I had them mounted to a block of wood and set on a table next to the bike and level. For the connection I did the same as an earlier post and just drilled out some screws that fit and put the plastic tube over those screws.

It worked good enough but if they where way off had to kill the engine quick as it would empty out one of the jars fast.

[Steve]

Sounds creative and ingeneous enough to maybe work. I appreciate your admission that there is still the possibility that one jar might empty if things are grossly mis-adjusted.

Now, if you don't mind, can you give us an idea just how long you worked on the design, chasing around for parts, actual construction, chasing around for more parts then fine-tuning? Also, please give us an idea just how much money was spent in the process of material acquisition. That would include the actual material as well as gas involved in the chasing down process.

Lastly, how portable is it? Can you easily and safely stick it in your car and bring it over to my house?

I think bwringer summed it up the best:

About $100 and five minutes of time spent ordering will buy a compact precision tool that can't destroy your engine by sucking fluid, that will last a lifetime, and can be stored in a drawer or easily transported. http://www.carbtune.com/

So, what's the point of spending days and at least half the money running around town to hardware stores and aquarium shops to cobble together an awkward homemade fluid manometer? ...

Actually, as of today, the price is less than $88. And, like he said, you get a precision device that is easily transportable. You could easily bungee it to the back seat of your bike or toss it in your tank bag to go work on a friend's bike. With my mercury sticks, I have to be more carefuly to keep the tubes above horizontal, but I have transported them, too.

.

[Theo]

I made some myself... pics would be good I know... but basically used 4 glass jars that had tubes go to the bottom of one to the bottom of the next and had a valve at the end of that to prime it so to speak to make sure the tubes between them had the oil in it. The most of the jars where filled with air and had another tube connected near the top of the jar to draw suction from the air with the oil at the bottom. The top was just filled with lots of hot glue and taped off to create the seal.

The lines going to the carbs need to be the same length and the jars need to be level so I had them mounted to a block of wood and set on a table next to the bike and level. For the connection I did the same as an earlier post and just drilled out some screws that fit and put the plastic tube over those screws.

It worked good enough but if they where way off had to kill the engine quick as it would empty out one of the jars fast.

Did it look something like this?



If yes, a build instruction for it can be found at another forum HERE.

[Nessism]

Now, if you don't mind, can you give us an idea just how long you worked on the design, chasing around for parts, actual construction, chasing around for more parts then fine-tuning? Also, please give us an idea just how much money was spent in the process of material acquisition. That would include the actual material as well as gas involved in the chasing down process.

Lastly, how portable is it? Can you easily and safely stick it in your car and bring it over to my house?

I think bwringer summed it up the best:

Actually, as of today, the price is less than $88. And, like he said, you get a precision device that is easily transportable. You could easily bungee it to the back seat of your bike or toss it in your tank bag to go work on a friend's bike. With my mercury sticks, I have to be more carefuly to keep the tubes above horizontal, but I have transported them, too.

.

You're beating a dead horse again Steve. What's wrong with someone building their own gauge? Even if the project is not economical enough to meet everyone's needs, or if it has drawbacks, its all part of the learning experience so it's all good. Ive made all kinds of my own tools over the years and have benefited greatly along the way even if some of them are not as good as the store bought equivalents. We learn by doing, and from our failures, so nothing is a real failure anyway as long as we are learning.

Homemade tools:
- bicycle framebuilding alignment table
- bicycle headset press
- golf club loft and lie gauge
- golf club swingweight gauge
- golf club iron loft and lie adjustment tools

I also build my own computers, even though it's cheaper to just buy a Dell.

Don't get me wrong, I'm contemplating buying a Carbtune now that the price is down even though my mercury gauge is working just fine.

[Steve]

You're beating a dead horse again Steve. What's wrong with someone building their own gauge? Even if the project is not economical enough to meet everyone's needs, or if it has drawbacks, its all part of the learning experience so it's all good. ...

I keep hoping there's just a little bit of life left in that horse.

You see it just as often as I do, where somebody wants to get by cheaply on a tool they think they only need to use once and ends up spending a couple of days putting it together, only to find that it was engineered incorrectly. After re-thinking their plan, there is more running around for parts, etc., etc. Looking at the total package of time and materials, there are times when it's just so much more practical to get what's available and not "re-invent the wheel".

Yeah, I build my own (desktop) computers, too, but only because nobody makes one that fits the space I have available and will work for my needs. Laptops, on the other hand, there are not too many ways to build your own, so you have to shop more carefully and accept what's out there. In the case of multi-cylinder manometers, there aren't too many options, the choice is rather easy.

.

[John Mellencamp]

Four our bikes, I would say the Carbtune is FAR better than the TecMate unit.

Except mine is only a twin Although for 88 bucks and the possibility of having a bigger Suzuki down the road that would be the wise investment .