Fuel Treatment

[jonshrader]

So 87 grade gas with no Ethanol is the best to use? Or 95 with a 10 percent Ethanol?


Or do I just use a midgrade and ride like I stole it?

[bwringer]

Stop worrying about the ethanol -- it's been all 10% around here for a long time. If your GS is running right, it doesn't make a damn bit of difference. Dump in whatever's cheapest and whip it like a rented mule.

(I don't want to spark a holy war over ethanol, but there was no choice... I swear, there are more urban legends and old wive's tales surrounding ethanol in gas than the Old and New Testaments put together. And you're probably about to see them all trotted out.)

Oh, and guess what one of the major ingredients in Sea Foam is?

[BassCliff]

Oh, and guess what one of the major ingredients in Sea Foam is?

NOOOooooo! Say it isn't so!!!!!





Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff

[jonshrader]

HAHAHA!


Man, I love this place!

[simon kuether]

I use 10mm of Mories top end lube to 20 litres of premium petrol . Don't know if that qualifies as it's not a cleaner . It's a "lead replacement" jobby . Good for your valves apparently .

Cheers , Simon .

[bwringer]

NOOOooooo! Say it isn't so!!!!!

Actually, if you really want to get picky, it's isopropyl alcohol, not ethanol.

http://www.seafoamsales.com/component/option,com_rokdownloads/Itemid,17/view,folder/

[Steve]

I understand the octane/BTU ratio, and agree with all of this. However, I would like to get your view on what happens when we throw ethanol into the mix. The reason I ask, is this.....most all gasoline now sold in Ontario has about 10% ethanol content. Like you, I have always used regular, for the same reasons you stated above. Last week, I noticed Shell gasoline here, has a 5% max ethanol content in their mid-grade (91 octane) , and offer zero ethanol in their premium 93 oct. gas.

As all of us know, there's theory and there's practice.

As Brian said, most of our gas (especially in our neck of the woods) has all been 10% ethanol for many years. The only time I have had the opportunity to compare directly is when I was traveling through Illinois, Iowa, Kansas and Nebraska. Grabbing the hose with the cheapest gas is somewhat of a habit, but that proved to be an eye-opener in those states. To help promote the E10 fuel, the price was lowered considerably. At the first station, I grabbed it out of habit, then noticed that the mid-grade is what had the E10 and was cheaper. The "regular" gas had no ethanol in it and cost a bit more, in spite of the lower octane. Yes, ethanol has a higher octane rating, but fewer BTUs. I started watching what was available at the pumps and then reached for whichever one had the least ethanol, which was usually the "regular" grade. Most of us in the group noticed that fuel mileage was about 10% lower when using the ethanol, and that was inline with the mileage I got closer to home.

Given the choice, I will fill with zero ethanol, but I won't pay for extra octane to do so.

.

[Mysuzyq]

The "regular" gas had no ethanol in it and cost a bit more, in spite of the lower octane. Yes, ethanol has a higher octane rating, but fewer BTUs. I started watching what was available at the pumps and then reached for whichever one had the least ethanol, which was usually the "regular" grade. Most of us in the group noticed that fuel mileage was about 10% lower when using the ethanol, and that was inline with the mileage I got closer to home.

Thanks! I had not given this much thought, prior to experiencing the increased mileage. I always fill the tank and re-set the trip odometer out of habit, and monitor mileage this way, just out of curiosity. I'll see what this fresh tank yields, and if the result is consistent . The difference in price is about 25 cents/gal between the two grades.....if that is offset by slightly increased mileage, at least there is some benefit....esp. if the gas also yields more hp (in theory, of course! ).
Tony.

[979roadrunner]

I'm with bwringer on this one. The BEST thing you can do is to apply fresh gasoline at regular intervals. (This means riding ... a LOT!!)

I don't think there is anything you can add to the gas in the tank to give you any more reliable power. "Octane boosters" don't add a bit of power. In fact, higher octane does not add power. It actually reduces it. That's right, "premium" gas (high-octane) has fewer BTUs per gallon than "regular" (lower-octane) gas. How can something with fewer BTUs give you more power, you ask? Higher compression in the combustion chamber. Higher compression raises the temperature, which can ignite the mixture before the spark. Higher octane resists auto-combustion due to temperature increase, forcing it to wait for the spark. Higher-octane fuel also burns slower, which is why you have to advance the spark. You need to have combustion completed by a certain point in terms of crankshaft rotation, so you need to start it sooner. I am often amused by those who will simply advance their ignition timing or use "premium" gas to get more power. Used alone or just with each other, they will actually reduce power, until you raise the compression ratio.

.

Then why can you take almost any stock pre 80 chevy, put premium in it, advance the timing to just before preignition point, and lower your ET by 1-2 (sometimes 3) tenths?
I've done this many times, and it always works. If I'm not making more power, why am I running faster? (trap speeds increase too)
BTW I'm not trolling, I really would like an explanation for this real world increase in performance from a mod that, according to some folks, shouldn't change a thing.

[Steve]

Then why can you take almost any stock pre 80 chevy, put premium in it, advance the timing to just before preignition point, and lower your ET by 1-2 (sometimes 3) tenths?
I've done this many times, and it always works. If I'm not making more power, why am I running faster? (trap speeds increase too)
BTW I'm not trolling, I really would like an explanation for this real world increase in performance from a mod that, according to some folks, shouldn't change a thing.

Well, as I mentioned in post #22:

As all of us know, there's theory and there's practice.

Did you optimize the timing on the "regular" gas, too?

When changing more than one item, it's hard to tell which one actually made the change.

.

[Nessism]

It's true that you can make more power with premium fuel and a timing adjustment. Some modern cars list two different hp ratings: using premium fuel and regular since the car adjusts automatically using the knock sensor. In my opinion playing that game with a GS is more work than it's worth but hey, to each their own.

[terrylee]

seafoam

The cheapest place I found seafoam was Mennards ($1-2) less than anywhere else. Just started using so not sure of results. terrylee

[chuckycheese]

Seafoam

I've tried Seafoam a few times and I really can't tell if it does any good or not. As many people have said, I think the more these old bikes are ridden, the better they run.

I have 2 Wallace Worlds near my dojo. One of them sells it and one doesn't.

[979roadrunner]

It's true that you can make more power with premium fuel and a timing adjustment. Some modern cars list two different hp ratings: using premium fuel and regular since the car adjusts automatically using the knock sensor. In my opinion playing that game with a GS is more work than it's worth but hey, to each their own.

Wouldn't bother to do it with any bike, as I agree it's WAY more trouble than it's worth, and bikes are wicked fast compared to almost any car, but this isn't the first time I've heard this statement from someone who, as far as I can tell, is knowledgeable.
One was an Army engineer, and when asked this question, he first called me a liar (though more politely) and, when I offered to prove it, clammed up and refused to discuss it further.
I'm fairly sure I remember more than one article in Hot Rod, Car Craft, etc where they did dyno runs that showed improved performance, too,
Yet there are people who seem knowledgeable who refute this is possible.
I would like one of these folks to explain the reason why theory and results don't agree, or don't seem to.
As far as modern cars that have two horsepower ratings according to octane rating, these are cars that are built to run premium, and make the higher number. When you put lower octane fuel in, it causes pre ignition, and the computer retards the timing, lowering horsepower.
Twiddling a car that was designed for low octane and a lower number and increasing power is a slightly different critter.
I await enlightenment. With an open mind.

[979roadrunner]

Well, as I mentioned in post #22:


Did you optimize the timing on the "regular" gas, too?

When changing more than one item, it's hard to tell which one actually made the change.

.

Verry valid point. And that would be 'no'. What I did, was take the car and give it a good factory tune, ran it four runs a day on four different days, then drained regular, tweaked timing, and did four runs a day on four different days.
Never thought about trying to optimize timing on regular.
That's a thought. My testing of theory wasn't as well thought out as I thought.
This is WHY I ask these sorts of questions, you never know when you'll get a sensible answer