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'81 Suzi GS450T with some...quirks

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    '81 Suzi GS450T with some...quirks

    So I've seen a lot of similar posts about issues but nothing that sums up exactly what she's been up to the last few months. This came out really long but it's necessary to articulate the craziness of the issue, I think (and yes, I'm new to this and have no tools or space to work on it). Some brief background: bought cheap off CL last year, mostly stored in my mechanic's garage but replaced magneto first and that problem was solved. Got it out again this spring, as soon as the weather stopped being quite so obnoxious in the Northeast, and found a different kind of problem. This bike runs great when she runs - take her on the turnpike for an hour and she's My Friend Flicka, but here's the kicka with flicka (my mechanic and I differ on the probably cause, he says ignition and I say carbs):

    Driving along at about 30mph and bike dies. It's pretty fast but I had the chance to realize it was slowing down, gave it gas and realized there was no one home in the engine. Pulled over, pulled out my choke, it started back up and I continued on to my destination. I had been riding for all of 6 minutes. It's done that a couple more times and feels more like running out of gas than, say, dead battery (plus it starts right back up sometimes).

    Now, the more pressing problem is that it's been doing this refusal to start in a couple of different situations, most notably after being driven and then sitting for anywhere from an hour to three or four. And there was a day when I drove it from store to store looking for something with no discernible issues starting or running, so it can't be an issue of heating up, because in town driving will certainly do that. So I let it set for an hour or two, go out to start it up and it'll wake up, run for a minute or so, and then slowly die. I can honk the horn, turn the lights on and off, and even use the start button to get it to crank. Sometimes it'll crank right over, start up, run for ten seconds, then die...you can actually see the RPMs dropping. And then it'll refuse to crank all the way for another 10 or 15 minutes. Sometimes it'll go over, more often it'll have to sit for an entire day, and then it acts like a puppy who has conveniently forgotten it's piddled all over your new couch.

    I'm leaning towards fuel supply, but they checked the petcock and fuel filter and said they were pristine...for a 29 year old bike that's kinda cool, but they didn't do anything with the carbs, which I thought should be cleaned out, if not rebuilt. I've also gotten it to the point where the battery was pretty much dead but when jump started ran long enough to get me to the garage. Normally the battery is fine. I've checked for spark with no conclusive evidence, since the time I was able to test, the damned bike started right back up, and the very next time it happened I didn't see a spark but when I went back in the morning, it started right up and drove right home. Now when I go out to see if it will replicate the problem, it just starts right up, stays running, although a little low idle until it's run for a few minutes. Given the unpredictable and seemingly dual nature of this issue, does anyone have any opinions one way or another? I know it's not the stator but it's possible it could be the coils or the regulator, but it doesn't seem to be a matter of how long it runs (and therefore how hot it gets).

    All opinions appreciated. I'm on the fence about keeping it or auctioning it off in the UK and letting someone else diagnose. But I truly love riding it when it's running and it's very nice looking...thanks y'all!
    Last edited by Guest; 04-21-2010, 06:30 PM.

    #2
    Hey man! I feel your pain for sure. My problem is similar, but slightly different like you said. What's really frustrating is that it's not a definite problem that you can replicate and point a finger at. They are nice running bikes, though, when they do run. It's like playing golf...you absolutely hate it until you hit that nice shot and it keeps you going until next time.

    So, I have a couple of questions for you just to help stimulate some information exchange so we can troubleshoot this thing. When you start out a trip with a known full battery and it dies on you at some point, does it ever have any problems turning over? If so, is it an intermittant problem? The reason I ask is that it could be a regulator/rectifier causing different problems at different times. Improperly regulated voltage can cause different problems at different times depending on what gets the crappy voltage first in the circuit. I'm not saying that this is your problem for sure, but check out the Stator Papers that were sent to you in the welcome package for a reasonably solid way to troubleshoot the R/R.

    The biggest part in troubleshooting any intermittant problem is patience, so don't expect to fix it quickly or on the first shot. I wish you luck with it and keep us posted on what you're doing so we can use it to troubleshoot our own bikes.

    Eddie

    Comment


      #3
      Greetings and Salutations!!

      Hi Mr. JBabylon,

      We don't have much history on your bike, do we? So we have to perform a certain amount of necessary maintenance to establish a baseline from which to start troubleshooting. It's all contained in your "mega-welcome".

      The task lists in your "mega-welcome" are guaranteed to lead you down the path of GS nirvana, if you take no shortcuts. If you deviate from the path, your way will be fraught with frustration and disappointment. You will not experience the joy of riding. Instead you will be stranded on the side of the path wishing you would have fixed it right the first time. Let us begin....

      I just stopped by to welcome you to the forum in my own, special way.

      If there's anything you'd like to know about the Suzuki GS model bikes, and most others actually, you've come to the right place. There's a lot of knowledge and experience here in the community. Come on in and let me say "HOoooowwwDY!"....

      Here is your very own magical, mystical, mythical, mind-expanding "mega-welcome". Please take notice of the "Top 10 Common Issues", the Carb Rebuild Series, and the Stator Papers. Now let me roll out the welcome mat for you...

      Please click here for your mega-welcome, chock full of tips, suggestions, links to vendors, and other information. Then feel free to visit my little BikeCliff website where I've been collecting the wisdom of this generous community. Don't forget, we like pictures! Not you, your bike!

      Thanks for joining us. Keep us informed.

      Thank you for your indulgence,

      BassCliff

      Comment


        #4
        Ms. JBabylon says I looked

        At the mega-welcome and a lot of those tests are out of my range of skill and knowledge. I'd end up blowing myself to kingdom come for sure. Eddie, thanks for the empathy and that's a great analogy with golf (although I never did get into golf, I've had a lifelong obsession with bikes). So I checked with the dude I bought it from who says he did a carb cleanout in the last year or so (probably two years ago now) and finds he is doing lots of cleanouts on his personal bikes due to fuel additives, etc. He also replaced a voltage regular (not sure if that's a R/R that you were talking about). I will try to get the eq to test the R/R however, and then maybe I can figure out how to replace it. I'm sure the carbs need to be cleaned out anyhow since it sat around for a few months over the winter.

        It IS intermittent and it doesn't have problems turning over, it just won't get all the way over and start up, but only sometimes. If it sits for long enough it's fine, however. I will definitely keep y'all posted on what I'm able to do myself and what I find out from the mechanic. One more thing, yesterday when it was giving me the eff-you, I had it going, we were doing about 20mph or a little less, and it bucked like a damned pony! To the point where if I were a much less experienced rider I'd have thought I dropped the clutch or something, and then it just idled down and died. That behavior strikes me as fuel problems and not electrical, but it's also at low speeds and some high speeds been known to do a hesitation like thing...almost like a car that's not firing on all cylinders, but I've got new spark plugs in there, as recommended. But no one's ever suggested it might be a problem with the spark plugs so...oy vey!

        Comment


          #5
          Do you have one of those vacuum actuated petcocks? I don't think you do just because I think they were only on the 80's model, but let us know if you do. If it's one of those, it could very well be that the petcock just isn't getting enough vacuum to keep the fuel going. Obviously, it's hard to diagnose over the internet, but it does sound fuel related unless you have a serious ground problem that's shorting out your electronics as you ride. Might be a main wire with really thinned out shielding and it's shorting out as the bike heats up. The megawelcome does have some great advice, and if you've had lots of experience with bikes, then it shouldn't take too much longer to work it out. I'm curious as all get out to see what your problem is because it might help me out with my problem. I have a new petcock on order, so we'll see how mine turns out this weekend.

          Good luck!
          Eddie

          Comment


            #6
            My petcock

            (If this weren't a motorcycle forum that would be inappropriate, wouldn't it?) It is a petcock with On, Prime, and Reserve, so I think it IS a vacuum one, right? I'm still attached to the idea that a good carb cleanout will fix what ails it. And if I'm right I get to tell my mech to eat my shorts He's a great guy but if it IS the ignition stuff, that costs more just to diagnose than it would to do the carbs so...yeah. I've got to find 200 bucks in my sparse budget and then I'll have him do the work and cross my fingers. I like to think that in checking the fuel filter and petcock and stuff and finding it pristine that would eliminate the petcock question but not sure how to tell on my own if that's the issue.

            Comment


              #7
              Hi,

              My apologies to Ms. Babylon.

              Feel free to visit my website. I've documented most of the regular maintenance tasks with lots of pictures and plain English (well, American) language. Sometimes the factory manuals can be pretty dry.

              Yes, the r/r could be called the voltage regulator. "r/r" is an abbreviation of Regulator/Rectifier. It's two components in a single package. The "stator" is similar to the alternator on a car. It produces alternating current which the r/r unit rectifies (turns into Direct Current) and regulates (smooths it to a fairly steady 14vDC).

              We'll help where we can. Keep us informed.


              Thank you for your indulgence,

              BassCliff
              Last edited by Guest; 04-22-2010, 02:21 AM.

              Comment


                #8
                A follow up to that '81 450T issue:

                Put in a new battery, works (mostly) like a charm. Didn't do anything else except removed the igniter to take a look at it, but then put it back on when the battery came in, and she's been starting up like nothing was ever wrong. So the problem is STILL a mystery but she's on the road and chugging along. The only issue I'm having now is 1) some asshat side swiped my mirror so I have to find a replacement, and 2) at high RPMs it's doing this hesitation, bucking bronco thing - like it's going to stall but it doesn't, or as if I had a headwind that comes and goes. I KNOW she hates it when I throttle down at high RPMs, but after a while she's just pretty happy going along at 70. I put some Fuel Cleaner in with almost every fill up and that seems to make it quiet for a while but still...end of summer trip to Montreal does NOT want dead bike halfway there, you know? So not sure what the other problem was but with a new battery all I've got is the bucking/hesitation (which was there before just not as noticeable because I couldn't ride it quite as much. But it's a fun little bike anyway.

                Comment


                  #9
                  It sounds to me like a carb problem. Does your tank have rust in it? I had a similar problem with my 450 a couple years ago, but the problem was all down in low RPM. I had to rev the snot out of it to get going from a stop, but it was fine once I got going. I put off cleaning the carbs after running Techron, then Sea Foam through it. This year I finally took the carbs off and had a friend clean them for me. I wish I had taken pictures of that process, you should have seen all the rust and junk that was in the bowls and other parts! My bike now runs better than it ever has since I've owned it. Good luck, and let's see some pictures of your bike!

                  Comment

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