Gas from overflow after fall

[Winter]

I've looked through the forums and haven't found anything that quite addresses my question, but I apologize if I'm covering old territory.


I have a 1979 GS550E in what appears to be quite nice running order. My neighbor has taken it for several rides and it starts, idles, shifts, and runs smoothly and well. At least until I got to it. I know that this is going to make some of you cringe, but I'm afraid that I'm learning to ride on this bike.


A few days ago I was practicing at low speeds when I cornered poorly and found myself lying under the poor thing, as I'm sure some of you did when you were learning. I hit the kill button, but for a short time the bike was running while essentially on its side, not an angle Suzuki had in mind I'm sure.


When I went to ride it home (less than two minutes) there was the strong smell of gas, and my partner noticed that there was fuel spurting from one of the the carburetor overflow lines (I believe that's what they are, I'm new to motorcycle maintenance too). It stopped when the bike was shut off, but began again when I fired it up the next day. I don't know if the carb is just full and needs to be drained or if I stuck the float in the fall, or something worse. I'd really rather not embark on a full carburetor rebuild since the carbs were running well until I got in the way, and our ridding season is very short up here (it's on my schedule for the wintertime), unless there is no alternative.


I know that all this makes me sound like an ass who jumped in without know what the heck he was doing, but I do have mechanical experience with similar technology, which was part of what drew me to the GS550, and we all have to learn someplace and somehow.

[tkent02]

One or more of the floats got stuck, no big deal.
Try whacking the side of the bowl with a screwdriver handle while it idles, that sometimes works.
If not, go a little further.
Maybe with skinny fingers and the right screwdriver you can take the bowls off and free the floats up, but you really should take them off, set the float heights, and while you are at it, clean them all thoroughly.
It won't cut into your riding season much. A day, two maybe, more if they need a longer dip.
It's routine maintenance that every rider should be able to do.

[spyug]

Sorry to hear of your mishap and hopefully you and the bike are not too banged up.

Good advice from Mr. T. With these old bikes its pretty much SOP to rebuild carbs, adjust valves and check the charging system. Over time, and especially if the bike has sat, these items need looking at.

As the carbs are "peeing" I'd start there. The sharp rap on the carbs will likely sort it for now but there is no substitute for the 'full Monty" i.e. the strip, dip and rebuild. Have a good look at the carb rebuild tutorial on the main page, order some o-rings from Mr. Barr, round up some cleaning supplies and have at it. With a mechanical bent you should have no issues.

After sorting the carbs, definitely do a valve adjustment and refer to the excellent tutorials on Mr. BikeCliff's website.

With fresh carbs and adjusted valves she should start and run like a top and you can concentrate on the fine art of learning to ride.

Pics of the new ride please and keep us up to speed on how you make out wrenching and riding.

Cheers,
spyug

PS Welcome aboard.

[Winter]

I think that the two things that most intimidate me about a full carb rebuild are the carb syncing (I only have experience with single carb engines on antique cars) and the fact that for some reason the only thing I that doesn't work/I haven't gotten working (I had to fix a number of minor issues when I got the bike) at the moment is my tachometer, without which a lot of the carb re-install procedures seem quite challenging.

I am curious at this stage if there is a way to do a cleaning or partial rebuild, or if it is best to just take the carbs off and completely tear them down? While I'm sure that with some experience it is a couple of days job, I know myself, and it will take a good bit longer the first time. It took me three hours to properly gap the valves on my antique car the first time and ten minutes the last time I did it before I sold her.

Also, in my state you are only allowed a motorcycle learners permit for 30days, and when it expires you may not ever get another one (although you may take the road test as often as you'd like as long as you have you bike towed to the testing site), so if I can get the bike back on the road faster without causing it permanent harm I'd like to.

[tkent02]

Did you try whacking the bowls yet?

[SqDancerLynn1]

When the bike tips over it is normal for fuel to spill out of the carbs. If it is still over flowing I would remove the float bowl drain screw. Try flushing some fuel through the carb

[BassCliff]

Greetings and Salutations!!

Hi Mr. Winter,

I'm glad you're OK. You've got a 30 year old bike that will need some TLC now and then. Do it right the first time and you won't have to do it again. (Wow! I sound like my Dad!) Anyway, here is your "mega-welcome". It will usher you in to GS nirvana if you follow the prescribed procedures and take no shortcuts. Let's get started.

I just stopped by to welcome you to the forum in my own, special way.

If there's anything you'd like to know about the Suzuki GS model bikes, and most others actually, you've come to the right place. There's a lot of knowledge and experience here in the community. Come on in and let me say "HOoooowwwDY!"....

Here is your very own magical, mystical, mythical, mind-expanding "mega-welcome". Please take notice of the "Top 10 Common Issues", the Carb Rebuild Series, and the Stator Papers. Now let me roll out the welcome mat for you...

Please click here for your mega-welcome, chock full of tips, suggestions, links to vendors, and other information. Then feel free to visit my little BikeCliff website where I've been collecting the wisdom of this generous community. Don't forget, we like pictures! Not you, your bike!

Thanks for joining us. Keep us informed.

Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff

[spyug]

Did you try smacking the carbs as T asks? That should likely get you back on track.

To dispell your fear, carb rebuilding is easy if you are organized and methodical. Granted, at first blush it seems complex and overwhelming but trust me it is not. Yes the first time may take you half a day but with experience you can knock this off in no time.

The big secret is to have an organized, well lit and uncluttered work area. You will need a bucket of carb dip, assorted brushes ( tooth, small brass, gun brushes etc), q-tips, carb spray, rags and some fine stiff wire. You should also have 2 seperate containers for the parts that come out of each carb....don't mix parts, keep them seperate in their own container.

Start by seperating the carbs ( should be readily apparent how they join) and before dissassembly throughly clean the outsides. For this you can use varsol, paint thinner, turps whatever you have and your assortment of brushes. Wipe and blow dry before taking apart.

Once a carb is apart take all the jets and drop them in seperate containers of carb dip. Let them sit overnight. Don't worry about the slides and rubber diahragms and big spring. Just look at the diaphragms for pin holes (bad...need to replace) and keep them away from the dip or any chemicals. Same for any rubber o-rings...keep away from cleaning solutions. All the other metal parts go in the dip overnight. If you have plastic floats, leave them out of the dip as well. Wipe off any 'algae" but don't dip them.

Word of caution about removing the floats. Be very careful getting the pin out, you can easily snap one of the "post" if you are not gentle. Try wiggling them out with needlenose pliers rather than a punch and hammer.

Once everything is dipped, dry off and blow through all jets and passages with compressed or canned air and or carb cleaner if you have a can ( watch you don't shoot that at your eyes). With the jets, make sure all holes are clear and use a fine wire to poke through if necessary, just be careful not to enlarge the holes.

Reassembly is, of course, just the reverse of dissassembly...duh!

You should have ordered a set of Mr. Barr's o-rings and you will likely need new float bowl gaskets. If you can't get gaskets locally or through Z1 Enterprises or Bike Bandit you can make some easily enough. Most auto stores have gasket material. Use the old one as a template and cut it out ( 10 minutes or so with an Xacto knife).

Synching the carbs is not difficult either and the carb tutorial covers bench synching. Dynamic synching ( running engine ) is covered in tutorials on BikeCliff's site as mentioned. For that you will need a manometer but you can easily make one from plastic tube, a yardstick and some ATF fluid. Lots of plans around for that.

I understand your need for a fast resolution for this but in one weekend or less you can have it sorted.

For now try the "smack it with a hammer" approach.

Cheers,
Spyug

[1_v8_merc]

Yeah, when i first got my GS650, my dad dropped it in the yard.(grass luckily)
It dumped a little fuel, but it was back to normal the next day....no issues.

I rebuilt my carbs, and was really hesitant too!
(seeing as everybody around me was telling me NOT to do it, and take it to a shop!)

I took em apart, most of the bolts were stripped, figured out a method to get em off anyways,(bought new bolts at Lowes) after that, it was easy.....i ran into some issues with the pilot jets being stuck, but I went to Lowes and found a Kobalt screwdriver that fit perfect and got em out easily.....

To be honest I never even touched my Floats!
(i was too scared to break the pins, so i just measured the float heights, it was good, so I moved on!)
Never had a problem since.

I never even dipped my carbs, although I somehow managed to blow thru like 4 cans of carb spray! And used the air compressor to blow air thru all the holes and ports.


I had my carbs down for like 2 months, because I was working a lot, and I made the mistake of ordering parts as I went along! Plus it was winter time, so I wasn't riding the bike......I just took my time.

After the first time, it's easy as cake!
You'll literally have em off the bike and torn a part in 30 minutes or 45 minutes.(just a guesstimation)

-------

In my opinion it's more important to check the gas tank!

You can clean the carbs all you want, but if that tank has rust floating around in it, it's going to cause problems!
(usually vintage bikes always have some small rust in them, unless you use a liner to re-seal the tank....but even people who seal them often complain of the liners eventually getting eaten away and getting burnt thru the engine, which is actually worse for your engine, compared to rust.)


But give the tank a good cleaning, and just move on.
(i couldn't believe some of the **** I found in my tank....nasty chunks and crap.)

If you want, you can add a second fuel filter, but make sure the inlet and outlet is equally wide as the fuel hose! I made the mistake of using a filter too small.....yikes, you wanna talk about running too lean, and having no top end power!
(the stock filters are crap, and usually are worn out and stretched.....I left mine in, since it didn't want to come out.....didn't feel like ordering another one, so I just added a secondary filter instead, plus if you get a clear filter, you can SEE the fuel and particles that it's filtering out.)

[Winter]

Thanks to everyone for your help and patience. I did try smacking the carbs and it helped for a couple of minutes and then the gas started ****ing out again.

However, when I pulled the drain-plugs on the carb bowls, and then rapped on the carbs at idle it seemed to make a bigger difference.

I'm going to spend a bit of time trying to figure out why my tachometer isn't working (haven't done a search of the forum yet for that problem) so I can know my RPMs for carb syncing before I do a rebuild.

Two more questions I have, although I know there will be more, are there any good explanations of the steps required for safely and simply removing the carburetors? It seems the rebuilds tend to start with them already off. I've been debating the Haynes vs. Chilton vs. Clymber manual and haven't actually order one yet, although I did download the OEM manual.

Also, If I remove the carbs but don't take them apart (just remove and re-install the bowls) would they need re-syncing just for having been taken off the engine. I wouldn't think so, but I want to be sure?

Thanks,

Winter

[spyug]

Carbs are easy to remove. The hardest part is getting clearance if you have a stock airbox. The airbox needs to be off in order for the carbs to come free of the intake boots. To get the airbox back far enough, you may need to pull the battery and its tray out.

Once you remove the airbox and loosen off the clamps to the intake boots wiggle the carbs free but leave the throttle and choke cables attached. If you hold the carbs at either end and twist the carbs in an up down motion, they will pop free. Remove them via the right side then remove the cables.

To aid in the reinstallation get yourself a heat gun (paint remover like an over powered hair dryer) and heat up the plastic boots to soften them, the carbs will go in easier. A little bit of silicone lube inside the throats also helps. sometimes a bit of leverage is also necessary and for that I use a "pry bar". I rest the foot of it at the back end of the engine usually against the long bolt that goes across the frame. Pushing forward the bar contacts the central rail of the carbs and helps to pop it in to the boots. A piece of wood of the right shape would work as well I'm sure.

You really need to dissassemble the carbs in order to clean them properly and to replace the o-rings in the fuel tubes. You can do a superficial cleaning with out taking them apart but if you're going to do it....do it correctly.

By not disconnecting the carbs you are not really going to insure they are synched as even minor movement of the carb bodies and cleaning of the linkages and air screws and such will throw synching off. Again better to do it correctly as per the tutorial.

Having said that and for your purposes of getting the bike running again soonest, doing it the "quick and dirty" way will likely get it running well enough to use......but it is not going to optimize its performance and it still might have issues, like erratic or high idle and lack of power at higher revs.

Good luck with it and let us know how it works out for you.

Cheers,
spyug

[tkent02]

Don't worry about the tach, people synch them at all different RPMs, a guess is good enough.
I do them just above an idle, it makes sense to me to synch them with the smallest throttle opening. Some people do it at the RPM they ride mostly, others do it at the RPM where it vibrates the worst, to smooth it out. Probably one way works better on some bikes, while another way works better on others. Suzuki says 1,700 RPM or something like that, but it doesn't really matter, perfection is not required unless you are a perfectionist, synching them anywhere is better than not synching them at all.