81 650gl carb issue?

[Guest]

Bought the bike last week was told it has 11k miles on it. The owner pulled the choke and cranked it for a while and it fired up and ran good. I get it home and it will only start with carb cleaner sprayed in the air box. Once it's running it runs really good pulls all the way to redline but the idle hunts sometimes. I pulled the carbs off today hoping to find dirt but they were pretty clean. The only thing I found was a rubber plug in each pilot jet. Are the plugs supposed to be there? an help would be appreciated. Also after I rode it around today I can't get it to start at all.

[Steve]

First of all,

BassCliff will be along shortly with the official welcome, so let's address your bike problems.

First thing to do with the bike is THROW AWAY THE CARB CLEANER SPRAY.

Actually, it's probably pretty good stuff, but DO NOT use it to start the bike. If you are having problems starting the bike, the #1 cause is dirty carbs. You can not tell they are dirty by dropping the float bowls and looking. The carbs have to come off the bike, taken COMPLETELY apart, then dipped for a day each, then re-assembled with new o-rings from cycleorings.com. (Yes, the rubber plugs belong there, the bike will not run right without them.)

While you are waiting for the carbs in "the dip", adjust your valves. The valves usually tighten up with use and time, tight valves make it very hard to start a cold engine. Follow the procedure in your service manual. If you don't have a service manual, either wait for BassCliff to give you his welcome and check out his website or search for him and check out his site. He also has tutorials posted there that supplement the service manual to show you how to do many of the procedures necessary for getting your bike running right.

I also offer a tool in the way of a spreadsheet that will help you with the valve adjustment process. Just look at the end of my signature for more information on that.

.

[1_v8_merc]

My 82 650 was the exact same way!
Previous idiot owner was hitting it with starter fluid.

Got It home, put fresh gas in it, fired right up fine!
Eventually i Cleaned the carbs, new plugs, did the valves.
I tightened down the carb boots, sealed the airbox.
Then i Synchronized it with carb sync gauges.
Then I realized I was supposed to bench sync it FIRST, so
I went back and bench synced it, and it turned out to be okay.

Then I set the mixture screws, and idle screw, bike really ran well.

I cleaned the gas tank at some point a long the way.
Found a lot of chunks and crap in there, got it cleaned out....
Although i gotta lil flash rust, but it still runs excellent.

New battery and cleaned the wiring harness and SO much
other crap.....bike is a thousand times better running now!

And to actually think that i thought it ran good when I got it! Eek!

Usually these bikes just need a good carb cleaning, tank check,
new plugs, fresh gas and just needa be ridden!
If the bike ever feels really tight like it's straining hard when
you rev it, or vibrates excessively, normally that means you need
to check the valves or sync the carbs.

Jumpy idle usually indicates an airleak, check your airfilter, if it's
the foam type, make sure it's got oil coating on it, not dry!
Then tighten down all the carb boots, there's 8 of em.
Even if they look tight, that's no good, u must actually give
em a good hard turn with a screwdriver until they won't turn anymore.



If there's one thing I've learned it's that these things DO NOT
like to sit more than a couple weeks, sometimes even days, lol.


Okay I'm tired now......

[67camaro]

thanks for the info. The valve cover is leaking oil and I have a new gasket that came with a parts bike i bought so I'll pull that and check the valves. Any one know the specs or where to get them? I'm assuming that they are shim type right? The air box is toast so I'm gonna run pod filters for now. With the stock exhaust I'm hoping I can just raise the needles a notch or two.

[spchips]

Valve adjustment.
Valve adjustment.
Valve adjustment.
Valve adjustment.

[67camaro]

ok I'm gonna check the valves tomorrow. need to get my feeler gauges from work. Anyone know the specs? Also where can I buy individual jets for these carbs? I'm gonna go with pod filters and go up 2 sizes to start. That's what I've done on every bike I've had and they always ran good

[1_v8_merc]

0.03 - 0-08mm is the recommended range.
But some people run up to 0.10 clearance or slightly more sometimes!

The 650 uses a Shim system, which means you can't just adjust your valves.
You have to buy or swap out shims, which are metal discs and are a preset size in Millimeters.
z1enterprises.com sells shims in singles or sets....GREAT website!

So if you stick a 0.03mm feeler in there, but it barely fits in, this means your clearance is TOO TIGHT..... You will need a smaller shim to create more of a gap so the valve won't be running extremely tight..... 0.03mm is the MINIMUM clearance allowed, which basically means, you DONT wanna be running that low....try to get a shim that puts you somewhere around 0.05 or a tad higher if you can.

Remember, it's better to run Loose than Tight!
Tight valves can absolutely kill these motors!

Okay, to clarify again........so you stick the 0.03 feeler between the shim and came lobe on Intake #1 to measure it, and the 0.03 just barely fits in or feels kinda hard to push thru....well you're at the minimum clearance or worse, you really want to be quite a bit looser than that! Now you pull the Shim out using proper procedure, look at the Shim and it reads 2.65, so you're going to wanna order or swap for a 2.60 shim, which makes the gap more loose, exactly what you want!
(shims have their size printed on the bottom of them, sometimes it's very faded but you can usually read it, but you DO get some that are faded beyond eye sight, so you DEFINITELY want to buy a cheapy Micrometer to measure it........in fact measure all of them just in case! Because you will get 1 or 2 shims that have something like "2.65X".......notice the X? Well the X means that it's slightly larger than 2.65....so hence thats where the micrometer comes in handy, to see what it REALLY is!)

-------

Steve has a Valve Adjustment spreadsheet that automatically calculates what shim to use. Let me know if you want the spreadsheet.

There's also some tutorials on bass cliffs website that shows how to do the valves.

Here's his main website loaded with tutorials.

http://members.dslextreme.com/users/bikecliff/

Just browse down some, and there's a link that shows how to do valves i believe!

You can buy the Bucket Tappet tool, or just use the zip-tie method.

I couldn't find any damn tappet tools anywhere locally, and had a buncha zip ties laying around, so I used that method......I would never do it any other way after trying that method out!
It takes a try or two to get it right, but once you get it.....you get it!

[BassCliff]

Greetings and Salutations!!

Hi Mr. 67camaro,

I'm supposed to be on vacation, but I just can't stay away from this place.

Here's your "mega-welcome". Read it, learn it, live it, love it!

I just stopped by to welcome you to the forum in my own, special way.

If there's anything you'd like to know about the Suzuki GS model bikes, and most others actually, you've come to the right place. There's a lot of knowledge and experience here in the community. Come on in and let me say "HOoooowwwDY!"....

Here is your very own magical, mystical, mythical, mind-expanding "mega-welcome". Please take notice of the "Top 10 Common Issues", the Carb Rebuild Series, and the Stator Papers. Now let me roll out the welcome mat for you...

Please click here for your mega-welcome, chock full of tips, suggestions, links to vendors, and other information. Then feel free to visit my little BikeCliff website where I've been collecting the wisdom of this generous community. Don't forget, we like pictures! Not you, your bike!

Thanks for joining us. Keep us informed.

Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff

[67camaro]

So I pulled the carbs and cleaned the mains and the pilots with carb cleaner. This was supposed to be a running bike when I bought it so I figured they couldn't be too bad. Found two set screws for the choke rod missing so it was only choking one carb. stole those from my parts bike. Charged the battery today at work. taped off almost all of the big hole in the air box, put the tank on, pulled the choke, cranked for maybe 15-20 seconds and she fired right up. Idle went way up so I pushed in the choke and it came right down. I let it run for a couple minutes and shut it off. everytime I go back down there as soon as I hit the starter she fires right up. My k&n filters I won last night should be here soon and I'm gonna try to find jets tomorrow locally. I'm gonna go up 3 sizes and she how she runs. Oh I'm gonna check the valves tomorrow.