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Carb Setup, 1100EZ, Pipe and Pods

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    Carb Setup, 1100EZ, Pipe and Pods

    Alright. Finally seem to have gotten all the air out of the new brake systems, so now my final hurdle is in sight. Carb tuning. Ugg. Never did like tuning them on cars, always farmed the work out in the past. Now I lack the funds to do so, plus I already have a Carbtune, and I'm pretty set on doing everything on the bike myself. Here's the baseline I'm starting with:

    Stock 1100E motor
    V&H pipe, similar in look to the MAC version, removable baffle.
    K&N pods, pre-oiled.
    Brand new OEM carb-to-head boots.
    New O-rings, carbs dipped and cleaned thoroughly.
    Dyno-Jet kit, installed per instructions.(largest mains,didn't install the air jets)
    New stock sized pilot jets, I also have a set of 37.5s, just in case.

    She starts easily on about half choke, but won't quite run yet without it. I've got the screws set about 2.5 turns out. Plugs are pretty sooty. I initially had the 37.5s in, and couldn't get it to run well at all, choke or no, which may have led to the sooty plugs. Bike doesn't take throttle very well, and not at all off the choke. No popping when it does rev. Any ideas? I'm thinking I'm a bit rich. I haven't gotten a sync in yet, I'd like her to idle without the choke before I try out the Carbtune. Is it even feasible to sync the carbs while on the choke circuit?

    The only caveat I had was replacing the two outboard carb mixture (?) screws? The ones underneath the factory emissions caps. Destroyed the originals removing them. I bought two of them from Mike's XS, and they were just slightly longer than the oem ones. The area where they start to taper is exactly the same, the piece that is longer is the shaft underneath the screw-head itself, but before the seating area. So, effectively, the head sits higher in the screw tower, and there is less pressure put on the spring, washer, and o-ring assembly (seems to make them easier to turn), but seats just like a stock screw. I think. When I installed them, I check them against the stock units, in the mouth of the carb, and it seemed like they were all protruding the same amount when fully seated. I'm 99 percent sure the extra length is a non-issue. All plugs are equally sooty with this setup, which leads me to think that everything is copacetic. I'm going to pull the carbs today, and install the longer screws in the two inboard carbs, and go from there.

    And, just to make sure, fewer turns out from seated = leaner mix? Or is it the other way around for CV carbs? More turns out = leaner mix?

    I'm slowly starting to figure out how these magical mystery fuel metering devices work. Still makes me want to switch over to fuel injection. Give me a fuel map, spark map, and a laptop, and watch the tuning commence! Funny, that I can proficiently tune a FI system, but am mostly lost when it comes to carbs. Who knows, maybe I'll try a Megasquirt one day.
    Last edited by Guest; 06-29-2010, 08:48 AM.

    #2
    Do you mean the 47.5s?
    1983 GS 1100E w/ 1230 kit, .340 lift Web Cams, Ape heavy duty valve springs, 83 1100 head with 1.5mm oversized SS intake valves, 1150 crank, Vance and Hines 1150 SuperHub, Star Racing high volume oil pump gears, 36mm carebs Dynojet stage 3 jet kit, Posplayr's SSPB, Progressive rear shocks and fork springs, Dyna 2000, Dynatek green coils and Vance & Hines 4-1 exhaust.
    1985 GS1150ES stock with 85 Red E bodywork.

    Comment


      #3
      I know you've been working on that bike for quite a while, so you must be chomping on the bit to take her out see what she'll do...

      My 1100EX ('81) is very similar in set-up to yours - pipe, pods, stage 3 kit, rebuilt carbs, etc...

      I can tell you this, my bike is extremely sensitive to positions of the mixture screws. This makes the difference between her running like crap to running like a scalded cat.

      You mentioned you have a couple of aftermarket mix screws - I don't think it matters at all about the shaft length. What does matter is that they are set so the mixture is optimum for each carb.

      Each screw on mine is set a little different in each carb, ranging from approx. 2.0 - 2. 75 turns. Adjustments as little as 1/8 of a turn made a big difference in how the bike starts & runs with throttle.

      Once your engine is completely warm, take your time & set each carb using the max RPM method. You have to wait a bit after turning the screw as the response is not instant.

      To start, I turn the screw in (leaner) until the engine starts to struggle, then turn it out (richer) a little bit at a time until the RPM is maxed out - I've found it's best to be on the leaner side of this process.

      This takes a little time to do correctly & I also listen to the sound of the exhaust as well - it will sound deeper & throaty when set right. You can feel the vibration of the bike smooth out when all is set correctly...

      Once you're confident the mix screws are set correctly then do your carb sync. Then ride & do plug chops to fine tune from there.

      Good luck - keep us posted.

      Mike
      '85 GS550L - SOLD
      '85 GS550E - SOLD
      '82 GS650GL - SOLD
      '81 GS750L - SOLD
      '82 GS850GL - trusty steed
      '80 GS1100L - son's project bike
      '82 GS1100G - SOLD
      '81 GS1100E - Big Red (daily rider)

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by Turtleface View Post
        And, just to make sure, fewer turns out from seated = leaner mix? Or is it the other way around for CV carbs? More turns out = leaner mix?
        If the screw is located between the carburetor slide and the engine, turning the screw out richens the mixture (CV). All current CV carbs are like this. If the screw is between the carb slide and the air cleaner turning it in richens it (VM).
        Steve

        1979 GS1000E (45 Yrs), 1981 GPz550 (11 Yrs)

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by chef1366 View Post
          Do you mean the 47.5s?
          <turtleface stares off into the distance, before sharply smacking his forehead, emitting a distinct "D'oh!>

          Oh dear, I think I've found my problem. No wonder this thing won't idle right. I tinkered a bit in the garage, and found that she takes throttle around the 1/4 to WOT marks, but nothing below that will get you much of anything.

          MAYBE BECAUSE MY PILOTS ARE 35s?

          Bill, you're in charge of parts ordering from now on. Pretty sure I intended to pick up the 47.5s on your advice, to boot. This is what happens when you don't heed the warnings of a good old fashioned gumption trap, and get too excited. Time to re-read Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintainance.

          Looks like I'll be playing with the rest of the bike (few minor leaks to troubleshoot, etc.) for a bit until I get parts in.

          It's actually a big sigh of relief for me. I thought I had buggered something BAD, she was running so poorly. Good to know I just goofed.

          Anyone want to trade a set of 35s and 37.5s for something in the 45-47.5 range? Are these applicable for a different set of carbs? I'll stick to my usually method of ridding myself of excess parts. (IE, give them away to someone who needs them).

          Out of curiosity, what would the result be of using such a small pilot? I'm assuming it would make the bike run lean while the pilot circuit is in operation?
          Last edited by Guest; 06-29-2010, 01:06 PM.

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by hikermikem View Post
            I know you've been working on that bike for quite a while, so you must be chomping on the bit to take her out see what she'll do...
            Mike

            Our bikes are very similar! Even got the same allen heads for the carbs!

            This was part of my problem. Got thinking too far ahead, ignored the obvious pilot jet problem. I have my old stock 45s, I might try and get those back in. Two of them have buggered screw heads, but I might have a driver that will work well enough with them...nah, I should just probably wait until I have new brass in hand. I do appreciate the run down on the tuning set-up though, that would have been the next question.

            Comment


              #7
              I'll buy those pilots from you... I need a new set for my 550E. I was lucky to get the old ones out (the PO had buggered them up) and was going to buy new OE ones...
              '85 GS550L - SOLD
              '85 GS550E - SOLD
              '82 GS650GL - SOLD
              '81 GS750L - SOLD
              '82 GS850GL - trusty steed
              '80 GS1100L - son's project bike
              '82 GS1100G - SOLD
              '81 GS1100E - Big Red (daily rider)

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by hikermikem View Post
                I'll buy those pilots from you... I need a new set for my 550E. I was lucky to get the old ones out (the PO had buggered them up) and was going to buy new OE ones...
                I've still got your address on file from the carb bolts. I'll send them out today or tomorrow. Same schtick as before, just give me what you think they're worth.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Deal, I only need the (4) 37.5's pilots - perhaps someone else could use the 35's.

                  Hope you're blasting around soon!!

                  PS - Did you use the carbtune yet? I really like mine.
                  '85 GS550L - SOLD
                  '85 GS550E - SOLD
                  '82 GS650GL - SOLD
                  '81 GS750L - SOLD
                  '82 GS850GL - trusty steed
                  '80 GS1100L - son's project bike
                  '82 GS1100G - SOLD
                  '81 GS1100E - Big Red (daily rider)

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by hikermikem View Post
                    Deal, I only need the (4) 37.5's pilots - perhaps someone else could use the 35's.

                    Hope you're blasting around soon!!

                    PS - Did you use the carbtune yet? I really like mine.
                    Awesome. I have the 35s in the carbs right now, and didn't really feel like opening them up at the moment. So, I'll get those 37.5s off today. I haven't been able to use the Carbtune yet, but I did mock it up on the engine, and everything seems pretty slick. I'm probably going to pick up a Colortune Pro setup with four plugs in the near future as well, just for giggles. Sounds easier than plug chops. I'll probably go ahead and do my due diligence as a scientist, and test both ways against each other, to see which is quicker/more accurate.

                    Then I'll probably go ahead and jump on the datalogging bandwagon with Posplayr, and pick up the Innovate units to do some seriously precise tuning/data collection.

                    I love data. Lots and lots and lots of data.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      I have the same engine and pipe in my bike. I have the needle clip on the second from bottom, with 47.5 pilots, and just tune you mixture screw for best running. The DJ instructions say to put the needle clip up way too far, my bike wouldnt run at all with it like that.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by gearhead13 View Post
                        I have the same engine and pipe in my bike. I have the needle clip on the second from bottom, with 47.5 pilots, and just tune you mixture screw for best running. The DJ instructions say to put the needle clip up way too far, my bike wouldnt run at all with it like that.
                        Would your cams make the difference there? I've still got the stock cams, so our engines aren't quite the same. Other than that, they're dead on.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          I am running 130 mikuni mains with the cams which is a little richer than the DJ 138's. All other settings are the same as with the stock cams.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Cams really don't affect jetting. I stole this from Joe M.
                            Steve

                            1979 GS1000E (45 Yrs), 1981 GPz550 (11 Yrs)

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Use the 47.5s.
                              What would happen with the 35s? You'd burn up your motor and run like crap.
                              1983 GS 1100E w/ 1230 kit, .340 lift Web Cams, Ape heavy duty valve springs, 83 1100 head with 1.5mm oversized SS intake valves, 1150 crank, Vance and Hines 1150 SuperHub, Star Racing high volume oil pump gears, 36mm carebs Dynojet stage 3 jet kit, Posplayr's SSPB, Progressive rear shocks and fork springs, Dyna 2000, Dynatek green coils and Vance & Hines 4-1 exhaust.
                              1985 GS1150ES stock with 85 Red E bodywork.

                              Comment

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