Carb Noob

[raistian77]

Zip tie method probably didn't work because the valves are way too tight.
As for the boot, I would get a new one ordered, than using a propane torch to heat the head where the threads are then try removing the screw.

Be careful Aluminum melts at 1200 F
Propane gets about 1100 F
Mapp gets about 2350 F
Oxy/Ac gets about 2700 F+

[MisterCinders]

I thought that might be the problem with the zip-tie method.

Ordered the tappet tool, some fuel line and filter (why not) and some gasket sealant.

Looking at the valve cover gasket, replacing the vale cover gasket and breather cover gasket is $40!! I suppose "patching" the torn gasket with some liquid gasket is not going to work. Or would it?

For the float-bowl plugs, I may hunt down an old set of carbs on ebay to cannibalize replacement bowls.

****es me off that parts/tools are so hard to find in the city. Basically, I have Auto Zone, and one cycle shop nearby, but the cycle shop is pretty weak, has crappy hours, etc. Hopefully, I can find a local source for shims, or it will be Christmas before I have the bike up and running again.

To think, I almost opted to change out to fresh fuel to postpone this work until winter. If only . . .

Thanks again to everyone for putting up with my posting. This thread has turned into a newbie wrench blog. If I get my crap together, maybe I will put a photo log of re-building the carbs (i.e., putting all the parts together). The VM guide on Basscliff's site is good, but a couple of the steps on removing and splitting up the carbs are confusing. Maybe I can provide some clarity to redeem subjecting you all to this saga of misery.

[BadBillyB]

Here ya go, look good to me http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1978-...Q5fAccessories

[TheCafeKid]

MC,

Z1Enterprises is THE place to order ALL of your basic maintenence stuff from. Shims, special tools, jets, whatever.. the only thing they DONT have that I have seen are the Oring kits that Robert Barr sells (www.cycleorings.com)
THeyre fast too.. orders placed early in the day (before 2pm EST i believe) will be sent out that day. I usually get my stuff from them in 3 days tops. You're just as close to them as I am...


As for your feeler gauges. Make SURE you're not transposing those numbers. Of course you cant fit a .12mm feeler in there. Thats WAY too loose anyway. The spec calls for a clearance of .03-.08MM. Anything larger than, say, .09 to .10mm is loose enough id worry about spinning a shim out of the bucket at high revs. Autozone DOES sell a set of feelers that go down to .04mm, and honestly thats small enough that if its that tight you cant get it in there, its time to change it. Even a clearance of .04, *I* would change to the next shim simply because I dont want to have to do it again in another month. (if you change to the next shim size from .04 you'll have a clearance of .09mm.. a lil loose, but acceptable.)

As for those stubborn bolts holding the boots on. If you can manage to get one of the bolts in each of them out with an impact driver, you SHOULD be able to actually twist and turn the boot itself to break the other loose. Doesnt always work, but just a tip. And, when you replace them, make sure to use the anti-seize liberally. Robert Barr also sells stainless steel allen heads to replace those with, pre-lubed, ready to install for a small fee.

[Big T]

Finally, the intake boot on the No.1 carb resists all measures to remove it. Dremeled a slot, but the screw head prefers crumbling to turning. Even a screw extractor refuses to grab anything in this damn bolt.

Did you try an impact driver?

That's an essential tool for old bikes. Get one at Sears or Harbor Freight

[MisterCinders]

MC,

Z1Enterprises is THE place to order ALL of your basic maintenence stuff from. Shims, special tools, jets, whatever.. the only thing they DONT have that I have seen are the Oring kits that Robert Barr sells (www.cycleorings.com)
THeyre fast too.. orders placed early in the day (before 2pm EST i believe) will be sent out that day. I usually get my stuff from them in 3 days tops. You're just as close to them as I am...


As for your feeler gauges. Make SURE you're not transposing those numbers. Of course you cant fit a .12mm feeler in there. Thats WAY too loose anyway. The spec calls for a clearance of .03-.08MM. Anything larger than, say, .09 to .10mm is loose enough id worry about spinning a shim out of the bucket at high revs. Autozone DOES sell a set of feelers that go down to .04mm, and honestly thats small enough that if its that tight you cant get it in there, its time to change it. Even a clearance of .04, *I* would change to the next shim simply because I dont want to have to do it again in another month. (if you change to the next shim size from .04 you'll have a clearance of .09mm.. a lil loose, but acceptable.)

As for those stubborn bolts holding the boots on. If you can manage to get one of the bolts in each of them out with an impact driver, you SHOULD be able to actually twist and turn the boot itself to break the other loose. Doesnt always work, but just a tip. And, when you replace them, make sure to use the anti-seize liberally. Robert Barr also sells stainless steel allen heads to replace those with, pre-lubed, ready to install for a small fee.

So CafeKid reveals that I am a moron.

Not only was I using a crappy set of feelers that went no lower than .127, but I had been measuring with two blades stuck together.

After grabbing a better set of feelers and double checking that I was only using ONE blade each time. I find that my clearances are a bit scattered. A couple of them are too wide and a couple are too tight. 4 valves are out of spec, and a fifth is pretty borderline on the wide side.

As for impact drivers, I do not have a compressor. My power drill has a "hammer" setting. Perhaps I will drop a driver bit into it and take a shot.

[Mop Bucket]

This is the impact driver he is talking about. Never used one before I bought the GS 650. I can say they are amazing. I have been able to remove stripped screws that never would have had a chance of removing with out doing damage.

http://www.harborfreight.com/7-piece-reversible-impact-driver-set-93481.html

http://www.harborfreight.com/impact-screwdriver-set-with-case-37530.html

I have the second one, works great but the rubber slides off after a bunch of wacks with a hammer. Would go with the all metal one if I had the money... ok its only a dollar more and I might buy it anyway.

[SVSooke]

Is the other screw out?If you have one side out tap that side lightly with a hammer.Once it moves you have a loose screw.Remembered this taking off a set of boots to take to a local customer for parts.

[MisterCinders]

Both screws on that boot are jammed in there.

I thought impact drivers were only a powered tool. Will grab a hammer blow version right away.

[MisterCinders]

Heat them up, the aluminum bowl will expand more than the brass plug

Put them in a 400 oven if you can

The, use a proper size screwdriver or impact bit on the drain plugs

Lots of people poke a wire strand in, I just soak and spray to clean it

Thanks. I will try the Easy Bake Oven method on the float bowls.

I have a related problem with three of main jet/needle jet assemblies. They are deeply in love and refuse to separate. I have sprayed and cleaned them as a unit, and my wire strand confirms that they have clear passages all around. But the brass heads on the main jets are mangled, preventing any grip from a driver to separate them. Cleaner, penetrating oil, etc. do not work. Any kitchen remedies to help pull these apart, given their hot "brass-on-brass" action?

If everything else comes together, I may just replace the o-rings on these and reassemble, with an eye towards replacing the needle jets and maybe the float bowls over the winter.

[TheCafeKid]

So CafeKid reveals that I am a moron.

Not only was I using a crappy set of feelers that went no lower than .127, but I had been measuring with two blades stuck together.

After grabbing a better set of feelers and double checking that I was only using ONE blade each time. I find that my clearances are a bit scattered. A couple of them are too wide and a couple are too tight. 4 valves are out of spec, and a fifth is pretty borderline on the wide side.

As for impact drivers, I do not have a compressor. My power drill has a "hammer" setting. Perhaps I will drop a driver bit into it and take a shot.

Not a moron at all sir. You're simply learning. Just a few years ago I didn't know any of this stuff either. Once I found this place, got my hands on a shop manual and started learning, I became a bit.. Obsessed about learning as much as I could. Being a "hands on" type of learner, I went from adjusting my valves to buying a used 750 motor to tear down and rebuild to teach myself. From there I tried to help as many people as I could to learn even more. It's addicting.

One thing, are you following the manual proceedures for checking the clearance? The cams need to be rotated manually by turning the crank with a wrench to "unload" the valves to check propper clearance. Otherwise your measurements WOULD be all over the board. It's very rare to have a loose clearance on the eight valve motors like yours. Usually, the clearances tighten up as the valve "tulips" in toward the head. Your best friend is a shop manual. I believe BassCliff has one available for download on his site, if you don't have a hard copy. Those manuals will teach you more than you think, and once you get a grasp of the workings these motors are honestly pretty simple and quite easy to work on, as far as it goes.

[MisterCinders]

Not a moron at all sir. You're simply learning. Just a few years ago I didn't know any of this stuff either. Once I found this place, got my hands on a shop manual and started learning, I became a bit.. Obsessed about learning as much as I could. Being a "hands on" type of learner, I went from adjusting my valves to buying a used 750 motor to tear down and rebuild to teach myself. From there I tried to help as many people as I could to learn even more. It's addicting.

One thing, are you following the manual proceedures for checking the clearance? The cams need to be rotated manually by turning the crank with a wrench to "unload" the valves to check propper clearance. Otherwise your measurements WOULD be all over the board. It's very rare to have a loose clearance on the eight valve motors like yours. Usually, the clearances tighten up as the valve "tulips" in toward the head. Your best friend is a shop manual. I believe BassCliff has one available for download on his site, if you don't have a hard copy. Those manuals will teach you more than you think, and once you get a grasp of the workings these motors are honestly pretty simple and quite easy to work on, as far as it goes.

I have the Clymer's and have reviewed the other manuals on BassCliff's site.

I am turning the motor to rotate the cams. Once I got past the wrong feeler gauge problem, my clearances revealed a mixed bag. At least three of them fall into the .051 <> .063 range (within spec), a couple are <.038 (too tight), a couple are >.127 (too loose) and one is around .103 (too loose, but close).

Positioning the cam for measurement is a bit confusing, though. Clymers says to point the cam straight up and measure the gap. Others say to point the cam away from the valve/shim and measure that gap. I will re-check my results using both positions, but they looked to be the same. Is one better than the other?

[Big T]

So CafeKid reveals that I am a moron.

As for impact drivers, I do not have a compressor. My power drill has a "hammer" setting. Perhaps I will drop a driver bit into it and take a shot.

Hah!

Where do you think we get all this knowledge? By screwing up things, of course.

As Mop Bucket points out, the impact driver I refer to is like a fat screwdriver with interchangable tips. You put the tip into the screw, apply a bit of torque by hand and bash it with a hammer. I can't say it works every time, but it may.

[raistian77]

BTW When I start a repair I now order new fasteners along with the part. If they are screws I try to order SS Allen head replacements. Z1 sells a kit with alot of the major fasteners you will run across. I try and not reuse any fastener I have had to take a impact driver to. (its a good way to end up with a headless screw)

[MisterCinders]

Yeah, I ordered new fasteners with the o-rings. Then get the tank off to find that 3/4 boots have the new fasteners already. Of course, it is that fourth boot that is the problem. If I can succeed where the PO failed, and extract the old screws, I will complete the change over to Allen heads.