Just rebuilt Carbs on my gs850g, bogging.

[JEEPRUSTY]

Did you compair the needles when you got your needle kit? How was the angle was it more tapered or less? I would rather just try to make my own needle, if i fail i could buy a kit. But since i could probably make all 4 needles in 5 minutes id rather try that first. I have a drill bit grinder here in my shop and then i could polish the tips. Thanks for your help.

Wait i know the answer.... BUY A KIT! ... yeah but id rather know whats going on since i will probably be changing the cams and rods and the pistons and id rather know what im doing than just bolting on a kit someone pre-made for a certain stage.

Mine came witht he sewing machine.

It was a nice singer pedal model.
In fact everyone in my family was a singer. Even the sewing machine.

[TheCafeKid]

NOS

You clearly aren't listening. You can try to make needles. Have at it. Anyone with a lathe could make them. But how do you know what you are doing? Is the taper to slow? To fast?
The kit was made by professional tuners who spent many many many hours designing them, trial and error, etc etc to get them right.

Your example of a race bike running without an air filter is neither here nor there. They've been jetted for that set up. That's the reason they run. You changing jets doesn't amount to a hill of beans. The jets are SECONDARY in importance compared to the needle.
Btw if you're building a "race bike" you've chosen a poor platform for it. The heaviest GS made, plus a shaft drive? C'mon man.
Yes. Spend the 100 bucks. Buy the damn kit or ride around till you torch the valves. Good luck

[Octain]

You can buy a kit and it will save you for a day or you can teach someone how to make their own kit and feed them for a lifetime.

Reply to yet another edit

I dont know how to make a kit. Hence the reason I purchased mine from the site I provided.

Here are some pics of the needles.(yes I went out to my garage, pulled my box of carb parts off the shelf just to snap a pic or two just for you) The one on the left on the top pic is the Mikuni OEM(stock) needle removed from the CV on my 82 850. The one on the right is a DJ needle. Note the notches? This is what ya need more than anything. That is, if you want your bike to run right.

[TheCafeKid]

Reply to yet another edit

I dont know how to make a kit. Hence the reason I purchased mine from the site I provided.

Here are some pics of the needles.(yes I went out to my garage, pulled my box of carb parts off the shelf just to snap a pic or two just for you) The one on the left on the top pic is the Mikuni OEM(stock) needle removed from the CV on my 82 850. The one on the right is a DJ needle. Note the notches? This is what ya need more than anything. That is, if you want your bike to run right.

Todd you sure those are DJ needles? Doesn't look like any recent needles I've seen from them, but admittedly I've not seen them all. Looks as though they could be Canada spec stockers. Every DJ needle I've seen is way sharper... Just saying. I could be and possibly am totally wrong.

[Octain]

Ya know what? Im not totally 100% positive. I bought em with a large DJ parts lot that I just assumed were also DJ. But the needles were the only parts that werent bagged in DJ packaging.
I'm not removing the needles from the 850 to compare either.
I was mainly just trying to show him the notches.

[BassCliff]

Hi,

Forgive me if I state the obvious. My purpose here is clarity in communication.

Thats what im trying to do is JEt it correctly for my application.

I just need to tune this thing without the pods.

What is your current application? Current intake and exhaust setup? Stock airbox? Pods? Velocity stacks? Headers only? 4-n-1? Stock exhaust?

Each combination will flow air differently and require a little different jet setup in your carbs. In the carb sections of my website you'll find some pretty good information and links to other pages with jetting and testing procedures.

I am also removing the restrictive muffler and running a open header.

For example, let's say you jet for headers only and get it running perfectly. Then you put a V&H 4-n-1 on it later. The engine will not run the same because the airflow is different. You'll probably have to rejet for the (slightly) more restrictive exhaust, perhaps installing slightly smaller jets.

Im trying to configure the correct jet size and A/F Mix.

This is not an exact science and requires a bit of black voodoo magic art. What I mean is that there will be some testing, some trial and error involved in every different combination of intake and exhaust. Even two of the same bikes with the same intakes and exhausts can require different jetting just because of the range of tolerances within the manufacturing processes of the engine, air intakes, exhausts, etc.

The cool thing about the DynoJet Stage 3 kit is that it is designed for good pod filters and a decent 4-n-1 exhaust. It's basically a "plug and play" solution which takes most of the guesswork out of jetting for the "performance" intake and exhaust setup.

Has anyone tried grinding their own needles? Is it the same as making a drill bit?

P.S. I am a machinist and run a full machine shop. Flight Research engineering.

I'm sure you could manufacture some killer needles if you had the specs. I doubt that Dynojet publishes that kind of information so you'd have to get some originals to make copies. I suppose as long as you didn't sell them it wouldn't be illegal.

Octain, I tend to agree with TCK. Those don't look tapered enough to be DJ needles. But the notches at the top make tuning the midrange so much easier.


Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff

[NOS]

NOS

Btw if you're building a "race bike" you've chosen a poor platform for it. The heaviest GS made, plus a shaft drive? C'mon man.

Dont bag on the shafties! Shafties are the coolest.

Last time i stop and help a chainer, sheesh.

[NOS]

This is not an exact science and requires a bit of black voodoo magic art. What I mean is that there will be some testing, some trial and error involved in every different combination of intake and exhaust. Even two of the same bikes with the same intakes and exhausts can require different jetting just because of the range of tolerances within the manufacturing processes of the engine, air intakes, exhausts, etc.

I'm sure you could manufacture some killer needles if you had the specs. I doubt that Dynojet publishes that kind of information so you'd have to get some originals to make copies. I suppose as long as you didn't sell them it wouldn't be illegal.

Octain, I tend to agree with TCK. Those don't look tapered enough to be DJ needles. But the notches at the top make tuning the midrange so much easier.


Thank you for your indulgence,

[TheCafeKid]

Dont bag on the shafties! Shafties are the coolest.

Last time i stop and help a chainer, sheesh.

I'm not bagging on them. Look at my sig line. I've owned and own more than a couple. But as a platform for a performance bike, they're a bit limited.

As far as installing an AFR set up, its your bike and your money, spend it however you want, but a DJ kit isn't "plug and play", it requires tuning based on your set up, state of tune, altitude etc. Which is why it has adjustable needles. Jets are jets... Mains don't even enter into it until 3/4 throttle...
Why is this so hard for everyone to understand????

[NOS]

Which is why it has adjustable needles. Jets are jets... Mains don't even enter into it until 3/4 throttle...
Why is this so hard for everyone to understand????

Oh i didnt know that, thanks for enlightening me.

Is it possible to purchase just the adjustible needles?

[TheCafeKid]

Oh i didnt know that, thanks for enlightening me.

Is it possible to purchase just the adjustible needles?

Well honestly thats what you're paying for when you buy the kit. The jets come as part if it, but all the bucks is in the needles.

[JEEPRUSTY]

Thank you BassCliff,

Thats what i was trying to say is that i feel like the kit just wont be giving the best that i can get. How can a plug n play kit work for all states and all altitudes? I am in So Cal and i am Below Sea Level.

Instead of buying the kit for $130 im going to weld in a couple bungholes in my header and attach a Bosch Lambda Oxygen sensor to my laptop. Then i can buy a handfull of needles and start building my own.

I guess a recording device might help out too.. Ill see how much a cheep one is.

hmmm.... i wonder what the comparison will be with a DJ kit vs. a custom tune.



here we go, i think i found what i wanted http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Innov...item563a48b244

It has a guage and logging and pc output. Yep itll do er. With this i should be able to hit 14.7 on the dot.

There are a couple guys on here that have done tuning via electronics 02 sensors etc. Thye should come up in a search I jsut do not know all the terms. Posplayr may have been one of the guys.

When do we sacrafice the chicken?

[NOS]

Well honestly thats what you're paying for when you buy the kit. The jets come as part if it, but all the bucks is in the needles.

And one other thing NOS, even though I don't run pods I constantly read the articles on here about them. Know that not every pod reacts the same so keep that in mind when doing your testing. Like TCK and others said, it will be a lot of trial and error - just keep going at it.

[NOS]

Let me guess, you have tuned cars or are looking at car tuning info? From the wording, it seems like it.

And one other thing NOS, even though I don't run pods I constantly read the articles on here about them. Know that not every pod reacts the same so keep that in mind when doing your testing. Like TCK and others said, it will be a lot of trial and error - just keep going at it.

[cowboyup3371]

And one other thing NOS, even though I don't run pods I constantly read the articles on here about them. Know that not every pod reacts the same so keep that in mind when doing your testing. Like TCK and others said, it will be a lot of trial and error - just keep going at it.