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Carb, Valves, meh - Seal Airleaks FIRST

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    Carb, Valves, meh - Seal Airleaks FIRST

    I would like to disagree with many on this site who chant the mantra "do carbs and valves, do carbs and valves" when it comes to fixing up our bikes. Not to say these things aren't important, they're very near the top of the list. But I think the first thing on the list should be to seal up the entire air intake system. Our bikes are built like tanks and can take a lot of abuse, but the carbs are like fussy two-year olds. Carbs want to suck air in just their right way or they have a complete temper tantrum. If there are airleaks in the intake system, the carbs can be perfectly clean and the valves perfectly adjusted, but the engine will still not run well. Symptoms include running on less than four cylinders, bogging/misfiring when throttling up, and the engine dieing at idle (ask me how I know).

    For engines with standard airboxes (if you have pods, this isn't for you) there are five steps to make sure your intake system is airtight:

    1) Replace sidecover seals - most airboxes have sidecovers that are sealed with foam where they join with the box. Find some adhesive backed, rubber-based dense foam weatherstripping at the hardware store. On my bike, 3/8" thick X 3/4" wide foam worked well. Avoid lightweight plastic-based foam, because gas and oil can turn it to goo.

    2) Replace air filter seal - using the same rubber-based foam, probably 1/4" thick, replace the seal that goes on top of the air filter where it jams up against airbox intake. The filter wedges up against the intake with some pressure, so smear some black synthetic brake caliper grease on the top side - then it slides easily and doesn't pull at the foam's adhesive backing.

    3) Replace airbox joint seal - most airboxes are in fact built like a clamshell, and where two halves join together there is a (guess what!) foam seal. 1/8" thick as I recall.

    4) Clean air filter - whether it's a foam filter or pleated K&N, dirty air filters have a big effect on how the carbs suck air. When you oil the filter after it's clean, be very careful not to spray too much oil. Think about how chicks in the movies spray perfume up in the air, and then walk through the mist - spray that much oil on the filter. If you over-oil, you'll have the same symptoms as mentioned earlier.

    5) Replace carb intake o-rings - these become hard over time and leak air. Get some high quality ones from Robert Barr at cycleorings.com or OEM's from the dealer. Yes it's kind of a pain to remove the carbs and carb tubes, but it has to be done. While you're at it, replace the crummy carb tube attachment screws with stainless hex bolts - Robert Barr has those too at a very good price.

    All of these steps are inexpensive, none of them are very time consuming, and you get a huge bang for your buck. The go on to adjust the valves and clean the carbs.

    #2
    Hi,

    Nice work! Yes, seal up the airbox and replace the intake boots and O-rings while your carbs are in the dip.

    I found these on some guy's website.

    Air Intake Repair: Airbox removal, intake boots and O-ring replacement (PDF file)

    Airbox Sealing(by Mr. Roostabunny)
    (CLICK HERE to download as PDF)

    Adjust the valves after you reinstall your clean carbs. Then your vacuum sync will be accurate.

    The bottom line is that it all has to be done. See the maintenance lists HERE.


    Thank you for your indulgence,

    BassCliff


    Last edited by Guest; 04-29-2011, 10:04 AM.

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by BassCliff View Post
      I found these on some guy's website.

      You keep talking about that "some guy", I wish you'd share the address of that site.



      .
      sigpic
      mine: 2000 Honda GoldWing GL1500SE and 1980 GS850G'K' "Junior"
      hers: 1982 GS850GL - "Angel" and 1969 Suzuki T250 Scrambler
      #1 son: 1986 Yamaha Venture Royale 1300 and 1982 GS650GL "Rat Bagger"
      #2 son: 1980 GS1000G
      Family Portrait
      Siblings and Spouses
      Mom's first ride
      Want a copy of my valve adjust spreadsheet for your 2-valve per cylinder engine? Send me an e-mail request (not a PM)
      (Click on my username in the upper-left corner for e-mail info.)

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by Steve View Post
        You keep talking about that "some guy", I wish you'd share the address of that site.



        .
        OK, link included.



        Thank you for your indulgence,

        BassCliff

        Comment


          #5
          Thanks.

          .
          sigpic
          mine: 2000 Honda GoldWing GL1500SE and 1980 GS850G'K' "Junior"
          hers: 1982 GS850GL - "Angel" and 1969 Suzuki T250 Scrambler
          #1 son: 1986 Yamaha Venture Royale 1300 and 1982 GS650GL "Rat Bagger"
          #2 son: 1980 GS1000G
          Family Portrait
          Siblings and Spouses
          Mom's first ride
          Want a copy of my valve adjust spreadsheet for your 2-valve per cylinder engine? Send me an e-mail request (not a PM)
          (Click on my username in the upper-left corner for e-mail info.)

          Comment


            #6
            DPage

            I don't want to hijack a thread, but I've been doing the standard cleanup (cabs, o-rings, etc) on my '83 650G, and I've been looking at options on how to seal the airbox.

            There is no sign of a foam seal in my aircleaner at all. What is there looks to be a combination of grease and dirt. I'm not familiar with the various gasket alternatives (e.g. Permatex) but I suppose it could be the remnants of some sort of liquid gasket.

            I'm a little confused as to the terminology you are using in this post. What is the sidecover to which you refer? How does this differ from the airbox joint seal? The airbox on mine is molded one piece. Is this different on the 850s?

            The orientation of the airbox in the following parts diagram is different than on my 650. My airbox cover and filter mount from the right side of the bike, as per the service manual, where the one in the diagram mounts from the top. Otherwise they look the same.



            My apologies if my question is a little unclear. I get the gist of what you are saying in Point 3), but I'm confused about point 1)
            Last edited by BigD_83; 06-26-2011, 03:11 AM.
            '83 GS650G
            '83 GS550es (didn't like the colours in the 80's, but they've grown on me)

            Comment


              #7
              DPage et al.

              I looked deeper into the thread and found the links to the air cleaner resurrection and I've got to say that looks much different than what I find on my GS650GD. I now understand what the sidecover seals are that were referred to in Point 1) by DPage.
              '83 GS650G
              '83 GS550es (didn't like the colours in the 80's, but they've grown on me)

              Comment


                #8
                DPage, it depends on the individual bike being worked on. My GS was a runner when I purchased it, and I went through the sealing exercise that you described. The carbs have not been rebuilt and it runs like a top. A very powerful top, of course.
                My GPz, OTOH, sat for ~5 years. I rebuilt the carbs on it (they are a different version of the Mikuni BS34SS) and they needed it. Crud and dirt were in there, I found dried out o-rings, etc. I also replaced the intake boots (it has K&N pods, so I stopped there) and it ran fantastic from the moment it started up.
                Two different bikes, two different situations, two different solutions.

                Comment

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