any Ideas what's wrong with my sync?

[janner]

Datsa....That was funny man..loved that reply, i was reading them all and came to yours and you ...well..took the words from me...brilliant

[Datsa Noydb]

Datsa....That was funny man..loved that reply, i was reading them all and came to yours and you ...well..took the words from me...brilliant

Sorry, was not trying for "funny" or even "amusing".

Just calling it the way I see it (however distorted that might be).

[esj001]

I assume you made your sync tool according to this thread ---http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum...ight=manometer ---did you use glass bottles or plastic?--hard to tell from the video

---I also made this same device out of four vodka bottles--works very well on my 82 850L. What I did was get the fluid levels in all 4 bottles close to the same (doesnt really matter if they are even levels or not when you end up, as you are just using the bottles to see which cylinder is pulling more vacuum.

---When i first started the bike up the #3 cyl bottle was bubbling from the tube and the fluid level was rising very quickly (i.e. pulling greater vacuum) (since the first screw you adjust is the one between 2 and 3, as Steve and the book says, thats what i did) you are merely adjusting the relationship between 2 and 3, so as I turned the screw (i dont remember which direction) I came to a piont at which #2 started bubbling (pulling vacuum) and #3 stopped--then i found the point at which about 1/16 of a turn one way caused number 3 to bubble and then 1/16 of a turn the other way made #2 start bubbling --i figured this "mid point" means that #2 and #3 are synced and left that alone--doesnt matter where the levels are on this type of device.

------Now doing this made #1 and #4 go back and forth----then I adjusted the relationship between #1 and #2 finding the mid piont again---then went to #3 and #4----then i went back and forth a few times and blipped the throttle every so often to make sure nothing changed, then i locked down the nuts.

---Basically when all was said and done, all bottles had different levels, but they were not moving and #3 was bubbling very very slowly--if i tried to get this to go away it resulted in either #2 bubbling slow or #4 bubbling slow depending on which screw was played with.

-----in answer to some of your questions--the sync screws are just adjusting the butterfly valves on #1, #2 and #4 (i think) #3 adjustment is your idle screw/knob--once you get it synced just turn your idle to where you want it--this is moving all 4 butterflys at the same time in unison, you only have one idle screw/knob below the carbs between #2 and #3 carb.
get a box fan to cool the motor as you are doing this--but all of this prob didnt take about 10 to 15 minutes.

Also, I am adjusting at the screws with lock nuts on them, and I can't seem to find the idle screws for each carb, are they under the solid looking piece of metal that looks like a filled in hole on the top of the carb just on the other side of the mixture screws?

-----the screws with the locknuts that you are turning are sync screws that adjust the butterflys
---also, how come you used oil and not water,, water is heavier than oil and seems to me that would work better and be neater, and can prob see bubbles easier. As for your mixture screw question, the screw coming strait down from the top on the side of the carbs closer to the airbox is your "idle air mixture screw" turing out or counterclockwise gives a richer mixture--start with 2 1/2 turns out from lightly seated on the bottom, then use the best rpm method on basscliffs website to obtain proper mixture setting--this is a good time to do this while syncing carbs

----what I noticed after doing this was smoother throttle response, and some little misfires that i felt every so often pretty much went away--also seem to have more power at lower rpm--i can wait longer to shift. This is definately a worthwhile procedure if you want your bike to run like a scalded dog.

-----critics please respond at your leisure--this is how we all learn--and after cheking out a few other forums for my other bikes, this one is light years ahead in correct tech info and i hope i havent messed that up with my explanation of bubbling bottles

[castlekin]

Okay let's start with you Datsa, if you read the Homemade Manometer thread by kcorbin, he lays out the tubing issue. All bottles are connected together and then the longer tubes you see draping down go to the carbs. Also the time reference was to how things looked after Steve asked for pics and when I sent them in. If you look all the bottles levels are the same. They were not like that when I decided to stop working on the bike. All bottles are glass and I took the first pic with the bike off and the second pic was after the bike was running a bit. the #4 bottle lost fluid but it was transferred to the other bottles, not sure which yet. You were right I meant vacuum, my wording was wrong, and finally I think I was asking similar questions to Steve in different ways, I thought I was asking different questions. Sometimes I can't seem to convey what I want to say in text well.

And now for esj001, with your information paired with Steve's I finally got alot of answers I was looking for. As for the idle screw issue. I was reading the 850 manual and it didn't give the info on that to well for me( again I am a hands on kind of guy and sometimes I don't understand what is written).
And as for using oil in my manometer, I did this so that if any was pulled into the cylinders in any great volume the bike would stay running( maybe water would of been fine, but I knew that th PO had jacked up the settings on the carbs, wasn't sure how much). So, thank you goes to you and Steve.

And Steve if you are still looking at this thread, "half ball" is in reference to the tool they are using in the manual, instead of fluids they are using an ball bearing type of tool. The vacuum pulls on a ball bearing.

[Walter]

Not understanding this, either. With my mercury gauge set, I can connect any number of vacuum hoses to it without sucking mercury through the engine.
.

put liquid in a straw hold finger on one end and suck nothing will come out because of equal pressure release finger and liquid will shotgun into your mouth, On some of the homemade Manometers you use one tube for 3&4 and one tube for 1&2 if you had no vaccum on one end fluid will be sucked into + side This is the style I was referring to, they are simple and work quite well http://www.powerchutes.com/manometer.asp

Per the instructions on Mercury Manometer "DO NOT REV THE ENGINE ABOVE 3500 rpms... THERE IS A DANGER OF SUCKING MERCURY INTO THE ENGINE IF YOU DO. IF THIS HAPPENS, DISCONTINUE THE SYNCHRONIZATION PROCESS AND RIDE THE BIKE FOR ONE MILE OR MORE TO PURGE THE MERCURY FROM THE ENGINE. NO DAMAGE TO THE ENGINE WILL OCCUR IF THIS PURGE PROCEDURE IS FOLLOWED."

[Steve]

And Steve if you are still looking at this thread, "half ball" is in reference to the tool they are using in the manual, instead of fluids they are using an ball bearing type of tool. The vacuum pulls on a ball bearing.

Just happened to look, even though I said "I'm outta here".

Yes, I know they use a ball bearing in the tool. The question is, though, when using a different tool, like a mercury manometer, how does "half a ball" translate to "mm of Hg"? There are no marks (with numbers) on the factory tool, emphasizing the fact that it's the balance that is important, not the actual vacuum level. Most of us here feel that "half a ball" is about the same as "1cmHg" and adjust accordingly. In your case, watching bubbles, would that be "1 bubble every 5 seconds"?

Which brings up another thing: watching bubbles? Just how can you judge a vacuum level by watching bubbles?

Per the instructions on Mercury Manometer "DO NOT REV THE ENGINE ABOVE 3500 rpms... THERE IS A DANGER OF SUCKING MERCURY INTO THE ENGINE IF YOU DO. IF THIS HAPPENS, DISCONTINUE THE SYNCHRONIZATION PROCESS AND RIDE THE BIKE FOR ONE MILE OR MORE TO PURGE THE MERCURY FROM THE ENGINE. NO DAMAGE TO THE ENGINE WILL OCCUR IF THIS PURGE PROCEDURE IS FOLLOWED."

You know, I have done countless carb syncs over the last 30+ years with my mercury sticks. Can't say that I ever sucked mercury out of the tool.
I have revved higher than 3500 and the mercury never got near the top of the tubes. Maybe it's the sign of a better gauge?

.

[castlekin]

I am going to make a smaller tube-like manometer using brake fluid for smaller minute adjustments.

Steve, can I get you input? And if Steve doesn't see this in the next 48 hours can someone let him know or should I send a PM?

And Steve, the bubbles let me know my vacuum was WAY too high.

[Steve]

Sorry, I peeked again.

I don't know how a different fluid is going to give you any different results if you can't DIRECTLY read a difference in fluid height due to a difference in vacuum.

Again, it comes back to a Rube Goldberg device that is contrived to serve the purpose of a perfectly good tool.

It's your bike, do what you want.
I won't be peeking tomorrow, I will be driving home.

.

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[castlekin]

I found a site that tells you how to make a tubed manometer, complete with lines of measurements. gonna build it and see how that works for me.

[fastpakr]

I known -nothing- about this seller. However, if your greatest purpose is to save a few dollars, it might be what you're looking for.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Deluxe-Carburetor-Tuner-Synchronizer-Motion-Pro-Mercury-/190529438645?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item2c5c7083b5

[Steve]

I known -nothing- about this seller. However, if your greatest purpose is to save a few dollars, it might be what you're looking for.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Delux...item2c5c7083b5

That's a great deal, but I would ask if the mercury is included.

On 'sticks' of that length, mercury is the only fluid that will work. In fact, on 'sticks' of that length (short), I would also use a filter at the top to ensure that mercury does not get sucked out during high-vacuum situations. My 'sticks' are a bit longer and do not have that problem.

.

[Nessism]

That's a great deal, but I would ask if the mercury is included.

On 'sticks' of that length, mercury is the only fluid that will work. In fact, on 'sticks' of that length (short), I would also use a filter at the top to ensure that mercury does not get sucked out during high-vacuum situations. My 'sticks' are a bit longer and do not have that problem.

.

The mercury is right there in the photo. Great price! Seller has zero feedback though...and shipping from China. How can you ship that thing for free all the way from China and only charge $20?

[laserred97gt]

The mercury is right there in the photo. Great price! Seller has zero feedback though...and shipping from China. How can you ship that thing for free all the way from China and only charge $20?

I never understood that either. I got a couple of SD Card Readers on ebay for $.99 + free shipping. Total = $1.98 USD. When it arrived, there was over $5.00 of postage on the envelope...

That sure is a good price for a mano though.

[Matchless]

---When i first started the bike up the #3 cyl bottle was bubbling from the tube and the fluid level was rising very quickly (i.e. pulling greater vacuum) (since the first screw you adjust is the one between 2 and 3, as Steve and the book says, thats what i did) you are merely adjusting the relationship between 2 and 3, so as I turned the screw (i dont remember which direction) I came to a piont at which #2 started bubbling (pulling vacuum) and #3 stopped--then i found the point at which about 1/16 of a turn one way caused number 3 to bubble and then 1/16 of a turn the other way made #2 start bubbling --i figured this "mid point" means that #2 and #3 are synced and left that alone--doesnt matter where the levels are on this type of device.

As far as I know, no manometer that has been correctly built should show any signs of bubbling. Bubbling shows the presence of air being pulled through the fluid, meaning that your manometer was probably leaking.
The last statement above is also not correct as the levels are important, meaning they should all be as close to one another as possible. Which is the primary reason for synchronizing your carbs. Different levels means you carbs are not properly synced or your manometer is leaking air.
According to the manual and Steve's earlier posts the absolutely correct adjustment requires a slight difference in height between the outer and inner cylinders.
The mixture or pilot screws are on top of the carbs are on the engine side of the carbs not on the airbox side

[bakalorz]

[/COLOR]

As far as I know, no manometer that has been correctly built should show any signs of bubbling. Bubbling shows the presence of air being pulled through the fluid, meaning that your manometer was probably leaking.

Matchless, as I understand it, that design WILL bubble if the pressure differences are too great ... Its actually a design feature, because that is why that design wont put fluid in the engine.

If the carbs are close, the fluid levels will work as normal.

If the vacum in one of the carbs is not strong (i.e. pressure is high), all the fluid will be pushed out of it and sucked to the other bottles. Once all the fluid is pushed out, the interconnector tube at the bottom will be uncovered and air will go to the other bottles and bubble up from the interconnecting tubes, and then the air from the bubbles will be sucked into the other carbs (instead of fluid).

When you get the adjustment close, the bubbles stop.
you then suck a little fluid back to empty bottle(s) (kind of like starting a siphon) the fluid goes back to the bottles it should be in, and you adjust the levels as normal.

(having to siphon gives me an idea for an improvement to the design though)

I don't know where the originator got the idea that the levels don't matter.