any Ideas what's wrong with my sync?

[Matchless]

Matchless, as I understand it, that design WILL bubble if the pressure differences are too great ... Its actually a design feature, because that is why that design wont put fluid in the engine.

If the carbs are close, the fluid levels will work as normal.

If the vacum in one of the carbs is not strong (i.e. pressure is high), all the fluid will be pushed out of it and sucked to the other bottles. Once all the fluid is pushed out, the interconnector tube at the bottom will be uncovered and air will go to the other bottles and bubble up from the interconnecting tubes, and then the air from the bubbles will be sucked into the other carbs (instead of fluid).

When you get the adjustment close, the bubbles stop.
you then suck a little fluid back to empty bottle(s) (kind of like starting a siphon) the fluid goes back to the bottles it should be in, and you adjust the levels as normal.

(having to siphon gives me an idea for an improvement to the design though)

I don't know where the originator got the idea that the levels don't matter.

Martin,
Thanks for that, I stand corrected, as I never considered the scenario with one completely empty bottle. Thanks for pointing that out.
I actually intend putting one of these together one day due to the advantages of the bottle approach versus to the long tube.
Apologies if I have unintentionally confused anyone!
Thanks again.

[castlekin]

never did I say the levels not matching didn't matter, that was someone else, I believe that it was esj001. So I got everything seemingly balanced out in the bottles and I put everything back together.

Started the bike, and POOF, the bike running funky. I say funky cuz at idle the bike sounds fine, get up to 5000 RPMs the bike is running rough. And as the bike sits there running the idle keeps going up and stops at about 3000 RPMs.

Oh well, guess I will try again.

[cowboyup3371]

Hanging idle????

[castlekin]

starts out at 1100ish, and then starts to climb over the course of about 2 minutes. I was thinking that it might have to do with the bike warming up, however the bike was already warm.

[esj001]

Castlekin, sorry to hijack your thread, but I think there is some confusion as to how this type of manometer operates. It is a good design that works well if you can wrap your mind around how it operates. The levels in the bottles are not important, and i hope to prove this with the attached video. First I want to address some of the comments on this thread.

Which brings up another thing: watching bubbles? Just how can you judge a vacuum level by watching bubbles?

If its bubbling or pulling in liquid/air then the vacuum is greater than the other three, I will conceed that this type of manometer may not work so well if you are trying to get the outers higher than the inners, but it works well for getting them all even.

Again, it comes back to a Rube Goldberg device that is contrived to serve the purpose of a perfectly good tool.

I have been known to be a bit Rube Goldbergish at times, but not this time. I wish kcorbin who originally put this design on the forum would pipe in on this. I think its a great tool if you know how to use it.

[/COLOR]
The mixture or pilot screws are on top of the carbs are on the engine side of the carbs not on the airbox side

I stand corrected, my bad

Matchless, as I understand it, that design WILL bubble if the pressure differences are too great ... Its actually a design feature, because that is why that design wont put fluid in the engine.
If the carbs are close, the fluid levels will work as normal.
If the vacum in one of the carbs is not strong (i.e. pressure is high), all the fluid will be pushed out of it and sucked to the other bottles. Once all the fluid is pushed out, the interconnector tube at the bottom will be uncovered and air will go to the other bottles and bubble up from the interconnecting tubes, and then the air from the bubbles will be sucked into the other carbs (instead of fluid).
When you get the adjustment close, the bubbles stop.
you then suck a little fluid back to empty bottle(s) (kind of like starting a siphon) the fluid goes back to the bottles it should be in, and you adjust the levels as normal.
(having to siphon gives me an idea for an improvement to the design though)
I don't know where the originator got the idea that the levels don't matter.

All correct except that the levels do not matter with this type, you are just looking for no transfer between bottles, which means the vacuum is even.

never did I say the levels not matching didn't matter, that was someone else, I believe that it was esj001. So I got everything seemingly balanced out in the bottles and I put everything back together.
Started the bike, and POOF, the bike running funky. I say funky cuz at idle the bike sounds fine, get up to 5000 RPMs the bike is running rough. And as the bike sits there running the idle keeps going up and stops at about 3000 RPMs.
Oh well, guess I will try again.

starts out at 1100ish, and then starts to climb over the course of about 2 minutes. I was thinking that it might have to do with the bike warming up, however the bike was already warm.

Yes you do need to try again with some different troubleshooting teqniques. I have read all of your posts since you joined in March and you seem to be all over the place with your troubleshooting--you've put in a new fuse box, you've had petcock problems, you've had spark problems, you've replaced a battery, now you are building different sync tools to chase down some fuel problem, but nowhere did I see that you have cleaned the carbs according to basscliffs site or replaced the O-rings on the intake boots or made damn sure there is no air leaking somewhere. After you do all of this, then worry about the sync. Not coming down on you, I just know that my 82 850L Suzuki was running like poop before I found this site. With Steves help and others I rebuilt my carbs, fixed my intake leaks, adjusted valve clearances and fixed my charging system. The bike now runs like a sewing machine strapped to the back of a scalded dog. All of this did cost about 400 dollars though (most of that was buying a new regulator/rectifyer and stator). Carbs may seem scary to rebuild, but it is necessary. Here is my you-tube video which I hope proves that this is a sound device for syncing carbs. Just a little backround on me--I have been an airplane mechanic for 11 years, so this isnt my first rodeo. Good luck and I will help all that I can
Please forgive the skippyness of the video, I think I need a new SD card
Also I plan to make a video of it hooked to my Suzuki, my brother is currently riding the hell out of her---He went from Nashville to Tampa and back, no problems.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dW5Ly_mRVYk

[esj001]

cmon no comments---bump

[esj001]

I really thought this would spark a heated debate---oh well Bump again

[BassCliff]

I am going to make a smaller tube-like manometer using brake fluid for smaller minute adjustments.

Hi,

Yes, I think you will have better luck with your home made manometer if you connect all four tubes to a single bottle of fluid (ATF, two stroke oil, etc). Make sure the tubes are long enough so that you can affix them to a board to measure the level of fluid in the tubes against each other. The levels of fluid in the four bottle setup would seem to take too long to respond to adjustments of the sync screws.

You will probably need some kind of restriction on the vacuum hoses. This is what is used on the Morgan Carbtune.



With the Carbtune you get a length of thick tubing with a narrow inside diameter which you place inline with the vacuum hoses.



Here is a picture showing a couple of different carb adjustments, the "idle mixture screw" and the "vacuum adjustment screw."



On my website you will find a couple of guides dealing with carb synchronization and air intake repair that have lots of pictures. They may provide some useful information for you.

Yes, and it goes without saying that the carbs are clean, the air intake and exhaust have no leaks, the charging system is functioning perfectly, the valves are adjusted, right? Otherwise we are chasing our collective tails.


Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff

[esj001]

Well I guess since Basscliff is a god around here I'll stop trying to prove this is a good manometer. I still disagree and I thought my video would prove that it is very responsive and doesnt take too long---

if bottle #1 is pulling 6 inches and bottle #2 is pulling 5 inches, if you were to wait long enough it would completely empty bottle #2 (further proving that the levels dont matter) if they are both pulling 5 inches then there will be no transfer from one to the other, regardless of the levels (i.e. equal vacuum which is what you are shooting for) you dont need any restrictors in this style either.

And if someone could explain why you would use oil or ATF over water that would be great----I know that if you were to suck something into the motor it would be better to be oil----but wont you still have to make it just as tall and use much more tubing than the 4 bottle style---water is heavier than oil right--so wouldnt it have to be even taller---Oh well I guess im trying to teach some old dogs new tricks.

[BassCliff]

I still disagree and I thought my video would prove that it is very responsive and doesnt take too long---

Hi,

Thank you for documenting your sync procedure with the four bottle manometer setup. I don't doubt your findings. The procedure I use, learned from this community, is simple and works well too.

And if someone could explain why you would use oil or ATF over water that would be great...

Sometimes, using the single reservoir, 4 hose, "home made" manometer setup, the builder will use hoses that are too short. This can cause the fluid to be sucked into the cylinders. If you're using ATF or two-stroke oil instead of colored water there will be absolutely no damage to your engine. I know a little water won't hurt either, but it's possible to suck a quart of water into your cylinder very quickly. I don't think that would be so good.

Yes, I've seen home-made manometers that are three or four feet tall and have 15 feet of hose. But they work well too, as well as a Morgan Carbtune, and are pretty cheap to build. So what would you rather work with, a 4 foot board with four 15 foot hoses, or 4 bottles and a bunch of hoses? I think it would be a wash.

When you get right down to it, I'm lazy.

It's quick and easy for me to read this.



Once I've got everything hooked up, I can sync my carbs in 5 minutes or less. I'm not sure I could do it that quickly by watching bubbles in four bottles. But that's just me.

One more thing; Some of us don't want to sync all four levels exactly the same. The manual calls for the inner two cylinders to draw slightly less than the outer two. It would be hard to gauge this by watching bubbles. If you do sync all four exactly level, then I'm sure the four bottles would be just as useful.


Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff

[castlekin]

Guys, I love the discussion I have created on this thread. esj, Love your words, and yes I have pulled the carbs and "looked" them over. I can't afford the 110 dollars for a carb re-work just yet. Yes, it seems I am all over the pace, but I bought the bike very used and I am working it over as problems arise and the weather gives me more riding time to listen and observe behaviors of this bike. So, Steve and BassCliff, I love the info you guys are giving and I hope as we discuss this it helps more people as they go about there reworks. I must say I did find I had a small vacuum issue, possibly. I had my adapters threaded to 1.0 instead of 0.8 only because I didn't have a die that had that type of threading.

So, if the big guys don't mind, new ideas and info are great. Let's keep the discussion going. And, I don't mind the scoldings I have gotten, or may get, that's how I grow and others may learn.

[cowboyup3371]

What do you mean the 110 dollars for a carb re-work?

[castlekin]

carb kits are about 26 dollars a piece per carb. If I do it I do my best to do it right,strange as that sounds. I don't want to tear into a carb with out a kit there just in case.

[BassCliff]

Hi,

Carb kit? Really?

Read your "mega-welcome" again.


Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff

[castlekin]

Okay, bust my chops, I love it( really I got a strange sense of humor). I don't like carb work, too many small parts that are really important, so I should do it but I fear it greatly. So, what you are telling me I should be able to tear down, clean and rebuilt these mikuni carbs without a kit?

Side note: most the carbs I have ever torn down were Carter Quadra-"junks" and mower carbs. So, razz me if you want but I believe that this is important enough to have everything you may need on hand "in case".