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My 78 GS750 Headache

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    My 78 GS750 Headache

    Hello all, I am new to the board but I've been coming here for quite a while to learn how to wrench on a 1978 GS 750 that I purchased in August. I don't have any experience riding and this is my first bike, but I wanted to buy an old Jap bike for the sole purpose of submerging myself into the world of motorcycle maintenance. It's been quite the learning experience so far, especially since my lack of knowledge about motorcycles forces me into the "guess-and-check" method of troubleshooting, but I still love working on this damn thing, despite the fact that I can't just go out and ride! If anybody can give me some advice on how to make that possible, it would BE GREAT!!


    So anyway, my original problems upon purchase:

    - Cold start up takes forever. Electric practically unusable- it sparks but doesn't turn over. I get it to kick start after a 15 minute battle.

    - Choke. Bike starts at half choke. Full-on and the bike bogs and dies immediately. When it is sufficiently warmed up I can turn the choke up all the way, but the initial warm-up has that problem and has me scratching my head.

    - The Ride. Idles in "waves" at times, and is super boggy. Between 3000 and 4000 rmps it backfires like crazy. Under 3 and over 4 is strong. Took it out for a longer trip, got it into 5th gear, WOT, and I was only barely reaching 60 mph. A friend behind me said I was also blowing blue-grey smoke the whole time. I only average 18-20 mpg as well. I found this out by setting my odometer back at 0 with the idea of riding 100 miles then filling up and doing the math to see my mpg, and I only made it to 86 miles, died, and had to do the walk of shame and strap a portable gas can to my back to ride home. WOOF!

    - When I rev the engine in neutral gradually, it accelerates fine. But if I jam on the throttle and open it up, it bogs and dies immediately. There is a youtube video of someone else with this problem. I will try to find it and post it here. This also reflects the ride. In first gear I can ease up to higher rpms, but going hard creates a sketchy, "about to die" feeling. This doesn't happen in higher gears.

    - I need to give A LOT of gas to get moving. Other friends who have ridden it to help me troubleshoot always kill it because they are used to their fine tuned bikes and don't give it enough gas at the start.

    - Gas. I can only run in "PRI" setting on the petcock. "On" and "Reserve" starve the carbs- I can physically see that no gas is coming from the tank while on these settings.

    - Taillight doesn't work for the foot break.


    The Previous Owner listed the bike as having a new clutch, new chain, new air filter, new tires. So that's good.

    What I have done so far:

    - Re-sealed the airbox

    - New Intake boots (WHAT A MESS! Damn stripped screws, WOW!!)

    - Carbs cleaned

    - New O-Rings

    - Static points timing

    - Re- attached the foot break light wires. D'OH! If only all my problems were that easy!!!

    Started it up today, same starting problem. Took forever. Idled really wild, could not find a good setting for the idle-mixture screw as I turned it below 2000 rpms it died. Same choke problem, died at full-on. Same throttle issue- revving slowly was aproblematic, hard throttle made it die. Filled my garage and street with smoke. Couldn't ever get it to come down from 2500 rpms without it dying. I elected it safe not to take it out for a ride.
    I will remove the carbs asap and synch again. I did all of those aforementioned things in one 12 hour straight shot and worked on the carbs last. I will admit that at 3 am I was getting sloppy... just wanted the project to be done. In my hurried state I know I didn't do a good job on that.


    Also to do ( please steer me elsewhere if I'm wrong ) :

    - I need a new exhaust. The PO put on these dumb Harley fishtail slip-ons and they don't fit correctly. There is a big hole where the muffler meets the pipe. I will photograph it for all to see. I will probably go with a 4-1 if I can find a good deal, but at this point, anything that fits appropriately will suffice.

    - Pod Filters (?) Everyone I've talked to talks about how great they perform blah blah blah. The general consensus on here is that they are not necessary, although that opinion seems pretty split depending on where I look. We shall see.

    - Electric ignition. I completely guessed on timing the points. If an electric ignition has me never doing that again then I am all for it.

    -Valve clearance. I don't know exactly what that does at this moment but Clymer's Manual told me to do it, so it will be done!

    - New Petcock? The only other bike I've ridden on (the yamaha 250 at riding school, HA!) only had "On" "Off" and "Res." I read that "PRI" is used as a 'to-gravity' option that is used to fully dump gas into the carbs with no control, or to clear the tank. With that knowledge, I do not think it's a good thing to be able to run only in that position.

    -For way down the road, when all my riding problems are taken care of, I think I would like a new seat. There are no porblems with the current OEM one. The PO claimed to have had it re-upholstered a few weeks before I bought it. Right now when I sit on the bike without the seat on it, I like the feel of that better. I like it more than the upright, high-riding position I felt with the seat on. I don't think I want to do a complete cafe racer or bobber rebuild project (although I like the look of both!), but just some sort of slimmer seat would be great.

    That is all for now. I just wanted to introduce myself, give my story, and hopefully get some real-human advice from some of the experts on the board. Thanks!
    Last edited by Guest; 10-25-2011, 02:14 AM.

    #2
    Here's a pic from the day of purchase. Look at those Fishtails!

    Comment


      #3
      In it's current state

      Comment


        #4
        Change the points and condensers.

        Daniel

        Comment


          #5
          I'd be careful if you are going to pods. I think I read that you may do that. If so... know that I chased my tail for quite a while trying to get jetting, etc. right and eventually took the advice of the guys on the forum, went back to the air box and then really started solving the problems. I got close with the pods, but the gs750 you have is plenty fast stock. The pods do look cool, but you will probably have a drop off in performance. Performance is the gs750 strength, in my opinion. I have a 1978 gs750 and did extensive work on it. Pretty much sounds like what you are going to have to do. Get the electric stuff ironed out first. Then adjust the valves. Then go to work on the carbs. I didn't go in that order initally, and wasted alot of time. Good Luck.

          PS: I agree. Points and Condensers could be a step in the right direction. New points and condensers did alot in the way of putting me on the right path.

          Scudder

          Comment


            #6
            Before you do anything else, do a cold compression check, and check your valve clearances. Repeat, CHECK YOUR VALVE CLEARANCES! Every time you ride that thing right now it's possible (likely even) that you are cooking one or more valves. If you have good compression and valve clearances then you can worry about the rest. Points and condenser are a good cheap thing to replace. I find adjusting them to be a minor headache so yes electronic ignition sounds inviting. It 'sounds' like you did your carbs correctly, seeing as how you mentioned new o-rings and resealing the air box. Hopefully that means you read BassCliff's greeting and used that info and dipped your carbs. If you did that and are pretty sure you were thorough they're probably good. If not you will end up taking them off again and dipping them. But check those valves before you run the engine again!

            I'd also keep the sealed air box since you already have it for now, at least till the bike runs and you know what you're dealing with. Pods offer a performance increase, but you need to know what you're doing to re-jet the carbs for them so best to wait till you're more experienced with your bike and have a good base line to start from. Sealing your exhaust is also advised, and if you go with a 4-1 you'll need to re-jet for that too. It might be easier to cover that leak and keep the horrid fishtails for now assuming they offer similar flow to the factory GS mufflers.

            That's going to be an excellent bike by the way, congratulations on impeccable taste.
            Last edited by Allie; 10-25-2011, 09:55 AM.
            "Men will never be free until Mark learns to do The Twist."

            -Denis D'shaker

            79 GS750N

            Comment


              #7
              KEEP the stock air setup!
              You need the bike as close to stock as possible and establish a baseline.

              Next, check ALL of the carb screw settings, even if they are Off by an 1/8 of a turn, that can cause overly Lean or Rich conditions at Idle.
              (there is a manual for download on basscliffs website)

              Next, check those Points, and make sure it's right.
              Those can definitely cause the problems you described.


              These bikes don't work on voodoo magic.
              99% of the time, the bike is fine, there's just 1 or 2 small things that aren't set correctly because people like to "play" with everything and they don't know what the hell they're doing, lol.


              If you run Pods with stock jets, you WILL be chasing your tail around, and struggling to get the carb settings right.
              Last edited by Guest; 10-25-2011, 03:50 PM.

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by 7981GS View Post
                Change the points and condensers.

                Daniel
                What he says, plus test the petcock

                Is the vacuum line for the petcock hooked up?

                If you've been lurking, you seen the megawelcome and the 10 things

                Do the ten things and report back

                And, yes, the ignition timing must be spot on
                1978 GS 1000 (since new)
                1979 GS 1000 (The Fridge, superbike replica project)
                1978 GS 1000 (parts)
                1981 GS 850 (anyone want a project?)
                1981 GPZ 550 (backroad screamer)
                1970 450 Mk IIID (THUMP!)
                2007 DRz 400S
                1999 ATK 490ES
                1994 DR 350SES

                Comment


                  #9
                  Thanks everybody for all the help. I performed a valve clearance, installed new points and condensers, and static timed them.
                  I am currently having problems with my throttle sort of sticking/meeting resistance. When I detached the throttle cables form the carbs it worked fine, so I lubed up everything that looked problematic, loosened and tightened, etc, put the cables back on, and still had the same problem. Could it be the spring stretched and loose from normal use/wear?

                  After installation of my points and condenser, my bike won't start. Checked the condensers with an ohmmeter and got a strong signal, my fuse is good, and my battery is fine (especially when it's hooked up to a fast charger... I tried it just in case). I've got the ignition cover off and its spinning, but I'm getting no spark at the points. I pulled a plug to see if there was a spark and there wasn't one there either. I can hear it, but don't see anything. Plugs still look to be in working order and I just had the bike running before I did all of these things. Am I looking at a problem with the coils? Before getting into that, could I benefit from new spark plug caps?

                  Next to do:
                  Advance timing (timing light on ebay, yay!!!)
                  Carb synch (carburetor manometer on CL, whoo hoo!!!)
                  But these can only be done when the bike starts, boooooo

                  Edit: Thanks again everybody!!!
                  Last edited by Guest; 11-03-2011, 08:23 PM.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Greetings and Salutations!!

                    Hi Mr. Tryan31,

                    Go through the maintenance lists in your "mega-welcome" and it should take care of most, if not all, of the symptoms you are experiencing. Check in the electrical section of my little website for ignition troubleshooting tips.

                    Let me dump a TON of information on you and share some GS lovin'.

                    I just stopped by to welcome you to the forum in my own, special way.

                    If there's anything you'd like to know about the Suzuki GS model bikes, and most others actually, you've come to the right place. There's a lot of knowledge and experience here in the community. Come on in and let me say "HOoooowwwDY!"....

                    Here is your very own magical, mystical, mythical, mind-expanding "mega-welcome". Please take notice of the "Top 10 Common Issues", "Top 15 Tips For GS Happiness", the Carb Cleanup Series, and the Stator Papers. All of these tasks must be addressed in order to have a safe, reliable machine. This is what NOT to do: Top 10 Newbie Mistakes. Now let me roll out the welcome mat for you...



                    Please click here for your mega-welcome, chock full of tips, suggestions, links to vendors, and other information. Then feel free to visit my little BikeCliff website where I've been collecting the wisdom of this generous community. Don't forget, we like pictures! Not you, your bike!

                    Thanks for joining us. Keep us informed.

                    Thank you for your indulgence,

                    BassCliff

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Loosen both cables on the throttle. It needs a bit of slack between em. You need to be able to turn the throttle 2-3mm without either cable pulling or they bind. Otherwise the stock spring is very tight - enough that someone may have swapped it and it's now not functioning properly.

                      Static timing of the points is more than close enough to get the bike started. In fact usually it's dead on. Don't want to be rude but you did do more than just set the points gap? i.e. checked the timing when the points opened and closed with some kind of circuit (I use a torch bulb and couple of bits of wire).

                      Check all the plugs to see if they have spark. Next I'd be checking coil's voltages and resistance.
                      1979 GS750E

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by Tryan31 View Post

                        After installation of my points and condenser, my bike won't start. Checked the condensers with an ohmmeter and got a strong signal,
                        Edit: Thanks again everybody!!!
                        What exactly do you mean by a strong signal? You should get quite a bit of resistance, if it's not then the condenser is shot. Just wondering 'cause a lot of resistance makes a needle move a little, as opposed to jumping all the way to zero. Unless of course you're using a digital.
                        "Men will never be free until Mark learns to do The Twist."

                        -Denis D'shaker

                        79 GS750N

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Allie: It was digital. Looked similar to this: http://www.liquidationopc.com/images/DT9205B1M.jpg . I touched one end to the condesner lead and the other to the metal casing (per Clymer's instructions) and watched as the numbers climbed.

                          Coady: Not rude, I'm new to all of this! I am unsure exactly what you mean/ what I'm looking for. Could I use the voltmeter that I own, similar to the link above?

                          Very excited now that I got the Official Welcome Post!!!

                          Comment


                            #14
                            I'm not sure what steps you've taken on timing, but go here



                            and follow the static timing instructions. You can substitute your meter for the light bulb
                            1978 GS 1000 (since new)
                            1979 GS 1000 (The Fridge, superbike replica project)
                            1978 GS 1000 (parts)
                            1981 GS 850 (anyone want a project?)
                            1981 GPZ 550 (backroad screamer)
                            1970 450 Mk IIID (THUMP!)
                            2007 DRz 400S
                            1999 ATK 490ES
                            1994 DR 350SES

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by Tryan31 View Post
                              Allie: It was digital. Looked similar to this: http://www.liquidationopc.com/images/DT9205B1M.jpg .
                              Kids these days.... .
                              "Men will never be free until Mark learns to do The Twist."

                              -Denis D'shaker

                              79 GS750N

                              Comment

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