Running rich

[OldVet66]

Needles set too high, floats adjusted wrong, allowing too much fuel in the float bowls. It was supposedly rebuilt in a shop so no telling what size pilots or mains are in there.

[Young and Reckless]

Thank you oldvet66.
No disrespect to any senior members.
I just like the basics. Where to start.
The rest I'll learn. Again no disrespect.
I am young and ignorant. I should use
That signature. Really thank you all for trying
Oldvet66 u hit what I needed to hear.

[allojohn]

Let me rephrase my original question.
What would cause a bike to run rich?
Forget I even have a motorcycle.
And if u don't know don't post a response

As OldVet66 says, it could be a number of things. Since you know the carbs have been messed with, you need to take them off tear them apart and find out what's in there, ie; main jet size, bleeder jet size, needle position etc. Sorry man, there's no other way to be sure. Any other route is guess work.

[Young and Reckless]

You guys are absolutely right.
No telling what size jets the guy put on.
Since he was a Suzuki dealer in the 70s
I was sure I could coUnt on him. But idk.
In theory if it was rich before I put k&n pods and
It's rich still, I wonder if it needs to be rejetted?
I'm guessing that the floats are bad or not right
I'm going to play with the pilot jet screws just a bit
But definitely going to just rebuild the carbs.
For anyone else with carb troubles. YouTube it.
That's the best learning on the web.
Another question to ask yourself is where are you
Bogging down when you pull the throttle
This could also help narrow it down. Again thanks
Everyone. Now it's time to get my hands dirty on some carbs!

[tkent02]

Let me rephrase my original question.
What would cause a bike to run rich?

Usually it's because some clueless idiot fvcked with the carburetors.

[TheCafeKid]

There are two things you need to do here.

1) Can the "I know it all" attitude.
2) listen to what the people who have been in your position already are telling you.

They/we aren't trying to be d!ckheads. We're trying to save you from taking six months and your entire riding season, and god knows how many dollars of wasted money to do something that could be done in a few short weeks and for quite a big less money if you simply heed the advise that we as collective are giving you. Your guy at the shop that's been tuning motorcycles since the "70s" is just one guy. There are literally hundreds on here that have probably just as much experience and do this on a regular basis, and yet even they still don't know it all. Which is why this place exists.
I personally have rebuilt four of the exact same bike you're messing with now, and I learn something new each time I do it.
So you can chuck any knowledge you have about working on cars or such out the window because aside from having an engine and wheels, these are nothing like a car.
The tolerances are much smaller, especially when it comes to the engine and carburetion. ANY increase in air or fuel will have a very large effect on how it runs.

For starters, don't "forget about the pods" They do matter. The fact is you cannot run the bike with pods without rejetting the carbs for them.
For one, it'll run like sh!t. It will fall on its face and buck and stumble and generally act like a giant POS. secondly, if you run it like that continually you will destroy the engine. To much air causes a very lean and hot burn in the cumbustion chamber and it will eventually burn the valves and worse.

Next, your petcock, or fuel tap, from your tank is likely failed. Or you are running it on the "PRIme" position constantly. The petcock is a vacuum operated style that is designed to only deliver fuel in the "ON" or "REServe" position when the engine is turning over to create a vacuum pull to open the diaphragm inside.
The "PRIme" position is used only to fill the float bowls when the bike has sat for a long period of time. It will flow fuel in this position constantly, and the carbs will not be able to hold the flow back, causing an overflow both out of the overflow tubes on the carbs and too much fuel in the cylinders.

You need to do the basic maintenance on your bike before you can begin to tune it. Meaning the carbs need to be torn down, dipped in solvent, cleaned and rebuilt with new sealing orings. The valves need to be adjusted. The charging system needs to be checked and repaired if found not to be functioning properly.
The intake boots need to have new orings installed behind them to repair any air leaks from years of neglect.

As to the wires going to your gauges, they don't just operate the gauges. Many of the wiring systems on these bikes are inter-connected. Without understanding what you're cutting, it was a bad idea. Simple as that.

So, in summary, you can follow the advise of the literally hundreds of years of combined experience of the people on this board, and end up with a nice running bike probably before the season begins in earnest. Or you can continue to be obstinate and closed minded and assume that no one is telling you what you NEED to hear (vs what you WANT to hear) and six month from now you might have it figured out. But it might also be shoved into the corner of your garage...

[Young and Reckless]

My apologies to everyone on the forum for
Being a dick. It won't happen again.
I gave up my riding season last year to get
This bike in top form. Doing everything
You guys have said to do. The petcock
Is functioning properly or so I believe but there
Is slight residue of gas coming from the carbs.
Definitely over flow. So I will take apart clean
And rejett them. With new seals. Thanks for all
The advice. Does anyone know what rejett I'm
Looking for? With k&n rc2454 air filters on stock
Carbs? I need to do some research.

[cowboyup3371]

Try getting a dynojet system to start but most posts I've read (haven't tried myself) stress it's very much trial and error. Keep track of what you do and only make one change at a time so you can back up if needed.

[allojohn]

Unfortunately, Dynojet doesn't market a kit for this machine.

I think K&N recommends the pilot jet up one size to 17.5
You may end up with a main jet as small as 115 but could need as large as 127.5 - it's trial and error at that point, along with where the e-clip needs to be.

[cowboyup3371]

Thanks allojohn

[KEITH KRAUSE]

Y&R, lots of things could cause your problem. You need to eliminate some basic possibilities first that can occur on older bikes with several past owners.
You most likely WILL need to re-jet but let's make sure of what we're working with first.
You have a 750 with the factory 26 mm VM carbs...Yes?
If so, then you need to VERIFY what jetting is in it now, including main jet, pilot jet, needle jet and jet needle e-clip position. Then, GENTLY bottom the pilot fuel screw (underneath/engine side of carb) in each carb and keep a record of how much each screw turned in. Do the same to each side mounted air screw. Once you have all this info, let us know and we can help you re-jet. Keep in mind that no jet kits are available for "pod only" mod's. Pods and stock exhaust are a poor flow match and will complicate finding the correct jetting though it's certainly possible.
Besides knowing what carbs and current jetting you have, we also want to be sure your problem is ONLY carb related. That means you need to do some basic checks that can effect good combustion and cause "rich running". Just blaming the carbs can end up costing you time and best performance. For any bike to run well you need to make basic checks besides carburetion.
Check your battery and system voltages. Check any suspect wiring connectors. NO bike will run well with poor voltage/weak spark. Be sure your plugs have the correct heat range and are gapped correctly. What plugs are in it now? Plug leads must be in good condition too, no cracking. Do you still run points/condensor? What condition are they in? How's the advance timing?
Are you sure the bike has good compression to all cylinders? Any idea of valve clearances?
Might seem like a lot to check but it's necessary on older bikes. The things above MUST be checked first and THEN you re-jet. If it is jetting related then I'm sure we can find the right jetting for you as long as you do what's needed first such as the above and also take the time to clean the carbs completely. Dirty air jets, plugged passages and dirty needle jet holes for example will cause richness too, so there's more to it that just swapping in new jets. Fresh o-rings inside the carbs and manifolds may be necessary too. Don't allow past owners poor maintanance to give you headaches.

[OldVet66]

Y&R, you have the big guns out and helping now. Keith certainly was the one who lit a fire under my backside and got me on the road to learning how to fix my bike. Many others also chimed in and helped in many ways. Use it wisely please. You will love the results, but it takes time and patience.

[Pendulum]

Unlike most folks on this site, I'm not afraid of pods! Honestly it was insanely easy to get my jetting sorted out. And I didn't have to spend $100+ on a Dynojet kit.

For pods, you'll want to bump the mains 2-3 levels and probably lower the clip on your needles 1 notch. I wouldn't touch the pilots until your main and needle are set. Start with mains, then needles, then pilot circuit. If the bike rides good and doesn't bog down when leaving from a stop, your pilot is probably ok. If it bogs/hesitates when leaving from a stop OR pops/backfires on decel with the throttle closed, then you need to richen it up 1 step.

Get the numbers off of your engine case, and consult this for info:

http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/search.php?searchid=2537545

[allojohn]

Thanks allojohn

Cheers Cowboy

[TheCafeKid]

Unlike most folks on this site, I'm not afraid of pods! Honestly it was insanely easy to get my jetting sorted out. And I didn't have to spend $100+ on a Dynojet kit.

For pods, you'll want to bump the mains 2-3 levels and probably lower the clip on your needles 1 notch. I wouldn't touch the pilots until your main and needle are set. Start with mains, then needles, then pilot circuit. If the bike rides good and doesn't bog down when leaving from a stop, your pilot is probably ok. If it bogs/hesitates when leaving from a stop OR pops/backfires on decel with the throttle closed, then you need to richen it up 1 step.

Get the numbers off of your engine case, and consult this for info:

http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum...archid=2537545

You don't necessarily need a DJ kit with the older carbs because they have adjustable needles and you have control of the separate circuits. This makes it much easier to dial them in when using pods and pipe. But the newer carbs (BS/CV vacuum style) don't have the adjustability at all, and require new needles besides the jets to work with this setup.