backfires and crazieness

[BassCliff]

Hi,

ok so i have made a list of stuff to order/ get and some quick prices. i still dont know where to get the boots for the airbox.

Most any online OEM vendor from the list in your "mega-welcome" should have them available. Partshark.com, gssuzuki.com, boulevardsuzuki.com are a few of the favorite vendors. Z1Enterprises.com can get OEM parts too. Just call them if you don't see it on the website.

You want #10 and perhaps #16 too. It's best if you get new clamps (#18 and #20) too.



#10: 13728-45010
.HOSE
#16: 13110-45010
PIPE, INTAKE

You'll need 4 of each.

Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff

[AJ]

ok so i have made a list of stuff to order/ get and some quick prices. i still dont know where to get the boots for the airbox.

16 mm stainless fasteners. cycle orings - $6.90
vm o-ring kit - cycle o-rings - $18.85
32mm intake o-rings - cycle o-rings - $3.30
boots for the airbox -?-?
ultra sonic cleaner - harbor frieght - $75
simple green - dollar general - couple dollars
carb sync adjustment tool - z1 - $15.99

and then a few other ideas

get stock exhaust (exhaust gasket?)
rotella diesel oil
shim the vaves
check the coil packs

any thoughts guys?

Skip the ultrasonic cleaner unless you have other needs for it.

You will need a big gallon can of carb dip - think that's about $30 nowadays.

Skip the valve synch wrench until you get it running ok. I think everybody makes too much out of carb synching anyway.

Get a valve cover gasket if you're doing the valves. You'll need the valve shim tool and some valve shims too. I doubt you need to do this before getting it to run 'correctly', but you should do the valves before trying to synch the carbs. Get some black silicone sealant for the valve cover gasket.

Check the intake and airbox boots before you replace them. Suzuki boots seem to hold up pretty well (especially compared to Yamaha boots).

I really like having a can of Marvel Mystery Oil around. It smells nice.

Tools: Get an IMPACT DRIVER to take the carbs apart. Harbor Freight is fine. Get a pack of #60 through #80 pin drills and a pin vice to clean your jets.

Good luck finding a stock exhaust for a reasonable price. I wasn't kidding about the HD mufflers.

[jesustheplumber]

already bought the us cleaner. i have read a thread discussing them and with such a wide gap between opinions for and against them, i had to buy one and see for myself. its definitely an interesting concept and it will be interesting to play with.

and i will call z1 tomorrow and get a price on those boots. the boots on the engine side appear to be in decent shape. still on the fence about just going ahead and get new ones or not.

[TheCafeKid]

already bought the us cleaner. i have read a thread discussing them and with such a wide gap between opinions for and against them, i had to buy one and see for myself. its definitely an interesting concept and it will be interesting to play with.

and i will call z1 tomorrow and get a price on those boots. the boots on the engine side appear to be in decent shape. still on the fence about just going ahead and get new ones or not.

On your boots, when you order your carb rings like I said order those orings too (same place) but he'll also toss in some stainless Allen bolts to replace those horrible Phillips head fasteners that you'll probably cuss at when you go to remove em. Antisize the crap out them too. When you get the boots off, pay close attention to the rubber around the steel flange they're moulded too. If its cracked or pulling away, or if the boots are hard as a rock I'd get new. They'll last another 30 years and you won't have to deal with any issues the old ones my cause.
If you don't wanna spend the dough right away I am sure I have a useable set that'll get you by if yours are trash.

It was good meeting you this evening and like I said if you want a hand lemme know!

[Steve]

PLease be careful here, there is some information that, while it has good intents, is not quite accurate.

Skip the ultrasonic cleaner unless you have other needs for it.

Probably very true, unless you just need another toy or find it at a great price.

You will need a big gallon can of carb dip - think that's about $30 nowadays.

Some say it's still about $20 where they live, the latest I have seen in my area (real close to you) is $28.

Skip the valve synch wrench until you get it running ok. I think everybody makes too much out of carb synching anyway.

For your bike, the wrench is a handy tool. On newer bikes with the CV carbs, it can be difficult to do the center screw, buy yours will be fine. It's not necessary to have, but does make the job a little easier.

Carb synching is actually rather critical, if you want a smooth-running bike that is easy to control. I can not put enough emphasis on it.

Get a valve cover gasket if you're doing the valves.

Very true. Best prices typically at Z1.

You'll need the valve shim tool and some valve shims too.

The "valve shim tool" is used successfully by some, I have never managed. I prefer the "zip-tie method", which is virtually free.

You won't know what shims you need until you open things up, measure your clearances and check your shims.
The spreadsheet I sent you will help you determine what shims you will need.

I doubt you need to do this before getting it to run 'correctly', but you should do the valves before trying to synch the carbs.

Actually, you will need to check the valves in order to get the engine to run 'correctly'.

Yes, the valves should be done before doing a sync on the carbs.

Get some black silicone sealant for the valve cover gasket.

NO, NO, NO. No silicone in the engine, EVER, and especially on the valve cover gasket.

Use WD-40, engine oil or a light grease on the gasket so it can be removed easily next time.

Check the intake and airbox boots before you replace them. Suzuki boots seem to hold up pretty well (especially compared to Yamaha boots).

Check for cracks and pliability. Old boots almost feel like they are made of plastic because they are so hard. New boots are soft and flexible.

I really like having a can of Marvel Mystery Oil around. It smells nice.

It also has uses other than being an air freshener, but it is not necessary for what you will be doing.

Tools: Get an IMPACT DRIVER to take the carbs apart. Harbor Freight is fine.

You will definitely need an impact driver. Whether you get it at Harbor Freight or spend a few more dollars at Sears is up to you.

Get a pack of #60 through #80 pin drills and a pin vice to clean your jets.

Please don't put hardened steel drill bits down your soft brass jets.

After soaking them in the carb cleaner along with the other carb parts, you can poke out any crud with one strand of copper from a multi-strand wire. Follow that with a quick burst of carb cleaner spray, then dry with compressed air.

Ajay, I know you meant well, but there was just too much stuff there that goes against the grain.

.

[TheCafeKid]

Oh By the way I have a sync gauge, and the neato keen sync wrench/driver too.

And I dunno if you read it yet or not, but when doing a valve clearance adjustment the bike needs to be stone cold. Left to sit overnight will probably be fine. It's not just for your (seemingly asbestos) fingers, but different metals expand at different rates with heat and since we've no idea how much the metals will expand, we don't know how to correct for it when measuring clearances.

As you saw, I have some shims, the tool, and feeler gauges, so again, if ya need anything, just ask

[AJ]

PLease be careful here, there is some information that, while it has good intents, is not quite accurate.

Probably very true, unless you just need another toy or find it at a great price.

Some say it's still about $20 where they live, the latest I have seen in my area (real close to you) is $28.

For your bike, the wrench is a handy tool. On newer bikes with the CV carbs, it can be difficult to do the center screw, buy yours will be fine. It's not necessary to have, but does make the job a little easier.

Carb synching is actually rather critical, if you want a smooth-running bike that is easy to control. I can not put enough emphasis on it.


Very true. Best prices typically at Z1.


The "valve shim tool" is used successfully by some, I have never managed. I prefer the "zip-tie method", which is virtually free.

You won't know what shims you need until you open things up, measure your clearances and check your shims.
The spreadsheet I sent you will help you determine what shims you will need.

Actually, you will need to check the valves in order to get the engine to run 'correctly'.

Yes, the valves should be done before doing a sync on the carbs.


NO, NO, NO. No silicone in the engine, EVER, and especially on the valve cover gasket.

Use WD-40, engine oil or a light grease on the gasket so it can be removed easily next time.


Check for cracks and pliability. Old boots almost feel like they are made of plastic because they are so hard. New boots are soft and flexible.


It also has uses other than being an air freshener, but it is not necessary for what you will be doing.


You will definitely need an impact driver. Whether you get it at Harbor Freight or spend a few more dollars at Sears is up to you.


Please don't put hardened steel drill bits down your soft brass jets.

After soaking them in the carb cleaner along with the other carb parts, you can poke out any crud with one strand of copper from a multi-strand wire. Follow that with a quick burst of carb cleaner spray, then dry with compressed air.

Ajay, I know you meant well, but there was just too much stuff there that goes against the grain.

.

Note: After re-reading Steve's response to my post, I'm changing my response, because mostly he agreed with me.

It seems there are four areas where we disagree: Carb Synch, Valve Adjustment, Silicone, and Drilling Jets. Otherwise, it seems there was quite a bit of agreement.

The immediate problem is to get this thing running. To do that, the OP needs to clean the carbs, fix any air leaks (boots and o-rings, as needed), and get a real exhaust on it or he will work forever to get the jetting right and then that will lead to a poorly performing motorcycle with no bottom end due to no back-pressure from the exhaust.

Buying new intake and airbox boots is a great idea, except they are $25 each, so who wants to throw $200 into boots for a bike you spent $300 on, especially if you haven't inspected the boots yet.

Valves and carb synch are important parts of getting an engine to run well, but very unlikely to be needed to fix the problem the OP asked for help on. I've seen engines with totally clapped out heads run pretty well, not great, but they run. This bike does not appear to run. I don't say synching is not important, it's just not important yet, Synch is more like frosting on the cupcake, but I'm talking about getting dinner first. Plus, you also need a manometer and an external fuel tank (or a buddy to hold the d@mned tank for you!).

Silicone. Ok, point of disagreement. Silicone should be put on only to the point of the gasket looking wet, not globbed on (except around rubber endcap seals or cam seals like on a car. Steve is right that too many people put big globs of silicone that can damage engines, but used properly, it's great stuff. Many gaskets come pre-coated with silicone, even head gaskets (the silicone is usually loaded with aluminum powder for head gaskets).

Drilling jets: I used to soak jets. I still do, but drilling with a pin drill BY HAND is usually much better. This way you have a properly sized MACHINED hole cut by nice sharp drill flutes. I don't know why people think it's a good idea to poke a piece of steel wire from a barbecue brush into a precision machined jet orifice and scratch up its walls. I will occasionally use some fine copper wire when I just need to poke out a piece of crud, but for a jet that is seriously gummed up with varnish, the pin drill is your friend. Plus you can upsize a pilot jet for free, which is especially useful for 1990's vintage bikes where the pilot jets were all too small to meet EPA emission rules.

Thank you for this opportunity to clarify the above opinions born of 30 plus years of mechanical (some professional) and engineering experience.

[AJ]

P.S. it sounds like CK is heading over to help, and that will be the best thing to rescue this bike!

[jesustheplumber]

exciting news! i may have a buyer for my '69 impala "yard ornament" edition! lots of money to fix a bike with! i will certainly hold of with my a few days and if the impala gets sold the this bike will certainly have a no shortcuts style rebuild. and i think that everyone can agree on that being a good thing

[jesustheplumber]

also exciting, the us cleaner works great. i believe it may have trouble with large deposits, but it powers through the other stuff great!