Needle Setting

[tas850g]

Hi All,

i just want 2nd, 3rd, etc opinions on which notch the clip is in on this needle?




I am getting a stumble between 6-7K rpm's regardless to which gear I am in.

The Stock setting is either 2 or 3. Depending on which groove this is in should I raise the needle 1 or 2 notches?

Also, how many total notches are on this needle?

EDIT: I have stock exhaust and air box.

[cowboyup3371]

Because I know it will be asked later, what throttle setting, not RPM, is this at? Full, Half, 1/4?

[Steve]

I haven't done this much, but I'll take a stab at this.

There are SIX notches for the clip.

It is currently in #3.

The chart I have says that #2 is stock, so move it one more notch toward the point to raise the needle.

.

[tas850g]

Because I know it will be asked later, what throttle setting, not RPM, is this at? Full, Half, 1/4?

It depends on the gear I'm in. First gear, the throttle is less than 1/4 throttle. I was trying to figure that out when testing in other gears. It seemed to be based more on rpm's.

At 5500 rpms in 5th gear I think I'm going 85 mph, maybe. I know for sure at 4000 rpms I'm going about 65 mph. This is why I have only been able to test to about 3rd gear.

[tas850g]

Steve, I think you are correct on the number of slots but count which slot it is in from the bottom.

Actually, maybe I am reading it incorrectly. I am counting which slot it is in starting from the bottom of the needle.

Which way should I count from, the top or bottom of the needle?

[7981GS]

Counting from the pointed end or bottom, you need to set your E-clip in the third notch up.
You are running leaner than stock now.

Eric

[Steve]

Counting from the pointed end or bottom, you need to set your E-clip in the third notch up.
You are running leaner than stock now.

Eric

According to this reference, you count from the end away from the point.



.

[7981GS]

Fine. Either way, he needs to drop the clip towards the tip.
Or just pick a number that the both of you wish to call it, K.

For 40 years, I have been counting how many clips up from the tip. Thank you very much.
Before the internet.
He needs to be richer.
Raise the needle by dropping the clip closer to the point. Richer.
How ever you or anyone else wants want to make it confusing is fine by me.
He did not show a picture with two pointed ends and I made it simple and clear.
And, his needle has six locations to choose from anyway.

Eric

[Steve]

Fine. Either way, he needs to drop the clip towards the tip.

That has been stated several times, no argument there.

Or just pick a number that the both of you wish to call it, K.

I was just showing him how my source numbered it, I have seen the same info from other sources, too.

For 40 years, I have been counting how many clips up from the tip. Thank you very much.
Before the internet.

OK, you have me there, I have not been around bikes for 40 years, but doing something for a long time does not necessarily make it right.
Not saying you are wrong, just saying that I have seen different information.

He needs to be richer.
Raise the needle by dropping the clip closer to the point. Richer.

Again, that has already been stated, still no argument.

How ever you or anyone else wants want to make it confusing is fine by me.

Simple pictures, what is so confusing?

He did not show a picture with two pointed ends and I made it simple and clear.

He didn't even show a picture with ONE pointed end.
Nobody said you did not make it simple and clear.
I was only pointing him to the industry standard of counting the notches.

And, his needle has six locations to choose from anyway.

Nobody said anything different. In fact, I answered his question by saying that he had six. I am very sorry that the author of the article in the link from which I got the picture only showed five notches on his needle. It's quite possible that the author's needle only had five notches, and did not anticipate me clipping the picture to show it here, where Todd's poor needle has six notches.

.

[tas850g]

Thanks for the info. I'll raise the needle one notch and test it out.

[RobG1970]

....LOL.. OK Girls, your both pretty...LOLOLOLOL ...

[MisterCinders]

It depends on the gear I'm in. First gear, the throttle is less than 1/4 throttle. I was trying to figure that out when testing in other gears. It seemed to be based more on rpm's.

At 5500 rpms in 5th gear I think I'm going 85 mph, maybe. I know for sure at 4000 rpms I'm going about 65 mph. This is why I have only been able to test to about 3rd gear.

It doesn't depend on what gear you are in, unless you have a transmission issue (you don't).

The carbs are not connected to the tach, so RPMs and carb behavior are not related. The jets engage as the throttle opening increases, with some overlap. Basically, the jetting ladder is:

idle to 1/4 throttle - pilot circuit

1/4 to 3/4 throttle - needle

3/4 to WoT - main jet

What year is your 850? If it has CV carbs, then the main jet plays a role in all the circuits, so you have to tune from the main jet down. Not sure if the 850 ever came with VMs, but if you have VM carbs, you tune from the pilot jet up.

If you are in 5th at 5500, you are probably still in the needle circuit, because WoT in 5th would be a lot faster. But ignore the RPM and MPH when testing your carb settings. Focus on throttle position.

[7981GS]

[AJ]

I always count down from the blunt end like Steve shows, and agree with 7981gs that you probably need the move the clip towards the pointy end. If it gets better, you went in the right direction. (duh!)

Here's an easy test to remember. Get up to some reasonably speed, say 45 to 50. Shift down to a lower gear and open throttle to maintain speed. If you were at 4000 rpm in 5th with low throttle, then you'll be at 5500 in 4th at mid throttle and maybe 7000 in 3rd at high throttle. The idea is to let you ride in traffic while exploring different rpm/throttle combos at steady state. This is better than trying to just run up through the gears because it lets you explore instead of testing everything at high throttle while accelerating like most people do. Good luck.

[AJ]

Note I didn't read this thresd carefully. Carbs and rpm are definitely related, as rpm determines total airflow through the system. You think of throttle position because that's what you need to maintain rpm for a given gear. What you really want to do is test at steady state rpm at different rpms, and testing at different speeds for a given gear, or different gears for a given speed lets you do that.