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    Trouble with the GS1000

    OK, taking my problems from the daily wrenching thread to this dedicated thread as suggested...

    The story so far:

    Before I started doing anything at all, the GS1000 ran well. No pops, no excessive buildup on plugs etc. Nice linear power curve at least up to 9,000 rpm.

    Then it stopped. I found that one of the points had broken off the rocker, and replaced both points and condensers. Adjusted gaps, but not timing. Ran excellent after this, which was why I skipped adjusting timing.

    Next, I developed an oil leak, which turned out to be from the cylinder base. Off with everything down to the block. Spent a couple of days cleaning off old gasket, and while waiting for new gaskets I decided to clean the carbs.
    I disassembled everything EXCEPT the pilot jet and air screw, which both the Haynes and the Suzuki manuals said not to touch. Everything else was in atoms, and got a run in an ultrasonic cleaner. I did not have new orings for the carbs, and reused the old ones. They all felt fresh and fit well.

    Next, ressembly of the engine: All new gaskets from the cylinder base up. Went well, afaik.

    Now here is the snag:
    I had to fit a different exhaust than the V&H 4-1 that was on there, because the "DMV" did not accept the V&H. I got hold of original pipes, stamped GS1000 and all, and mounted these, hoping they'd work as far as the DMV and back without re-jetting. They almost did. At least the bike got the OK from the DMV and I now have the license plate.

    So, after getting the use of the 4-2 Suzuki pipes that I needed, I put the V&H 4-1 back on. This was the exhaust that was on there before all this started, so the jets should be the correct ones for that. This is why I did not make any changes to jetting. It worked before.

    The air box? Hm. The air filter box holds a pod style cone shaped KP filter, which again was part of the system that worked well before all this. The connections are good between the carbs and the box, and between the two boxes. They both have designed holes and openings, what do you mean by "sealed"?

    I had a very incomplete set of shims, so I decided to check the valves, but without changing any shims. The thinnest feeler in the kit I had was 0.04, and it slid under all but two of the rockers. Thus I have no idea about two of them, other than that they are tighter than 0.04.
    Assuming that they are tighter than the specified minimum (0.03mm), could this cause my problems?

    Checked points gaps again, and fired up. Sounded just right, so I went home for the night, charging the battery overnight. In the morning I started the bike, and it fired up immediately and sounded good.

    Drove off, but at about 3,500 rpm in second she started failing. It sounded (and felt) like not all cylinders were firing consistently, and massive popping suggested lots of unburned fuel found its way to the pipes. A few seconds of this, and it stopped again. Plugs are blackened and covered with carbon.

    I will check timing with a light today, make absolutely sure the ignition timing and gaps are spot on.

    What else could I do?

    I hope this clears up the 4-1 misunderstanding. I am trying to get the bike to work with parts (exhaust, jets, air filter) that worked perfectly before. Not fitting a V&H without rejetting. All this worked well three weeks ago.

    Any thoughts, guys? Thanks for your time.
    Last edited by Guest; 08-12-2012, 12:38 PM.

    #2
    PS - the petcock seems to be less than perfect, as it leaks a little gas when I disconnect the main hose, even in ON position. However, just like for the rest of the stuff over, this was the case when it all worked as well.
    Last edited by Guest; 08-11-2012, 06:33 AM.

    Comment


      #3
      I have to second the two things the prior poster said.

      Get that timing right. Timing lights are the best tool you never use.

      As far as the carbs, having them in through a cleaning can cause problems, as it creates a place for stuff to get stuck. The reason the manuals say no touchy touchy, is for legal (EPA) and because it's easy to screw up the setting. When you remove, try to run them in gently first to see how many turns out you should be setting each one when reassembling.

      It's not uncommon to have to redo the carbs a second time. The pilot jets are very important, and be sure to hold them up to the light so you can see a nice round hole in the jet. If you see no light, work slowly and gently with 1-2 strands of copper wire from a piece of scrap wire. do not use steel or anything that will scratch brass. A very tiny scratch can completely change the way it flows.

      I do not agree with the poster that said the carb o-rings need to be replaced. If they appear to be in good condition, they are fine. Almost all will tell you if they are bad by a nice puddle of gas under the bike.

      Now, the intake o-rings and the intake boots, those are important. Check those.

      Also, if you tore apart the top end, you should check the valves again and readjust, esp if you tore apart the head. You can get a nice feeler set from harbor freight I think, and I know bikebandit and Napa sell one online.
      Yamaha fz1 2007

      Comment


        #4
        Thanks guys. None of this causes any panic, only delayed joy... I have to order bits and pieces of course. Shims and orings.
        One thing: my intake boots are fine. Nice and soft. However, they do NOT have anywhere for orings to go (really. I'll post pics once they're off. ), so I gave them a seal against the top using rgb silicone. Dumb? Problem?

        Checking ignition now.

        Comment


          #5
          I do not agree with the poster that said the carb o-rings need to be replaced. If they appear to be in good condition, they are fine.
          Sorry but I don't agree with this. The rings may look fine but if you distort them by pulling on them you will often find they are cracked. O-rings are cheap enough from Mr. Barr and are critical to having the carbs work correctly so change them out for peace of mind.

          Good luck with it.

          Spyug

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by Hovmod View Post
            Thanks guys. None of this causes any panic, only delayed joy... I have to order bits and pieces of course. Shims and orings.
            One thing: my intake boots are fine. Nice and soft. However, they do NOT have anywhere for orings to go (really. I'll post pics once they're off. ), so I gave them a seal against the top using rgb silicone. Dumb? Problem?

            Checking ignition now.
            I would make sure in this.My 78 1000 definitely has O rings.Nice new ones from Mr Barr.The old ones where so flattened on mine I might have missed them to.
            Last edited by Guest; 08-11-2012, 10:46 AM.

            Comment


              #7
              Hm. Ignition gaps were off. Way off.
              That helped a lot, but I'm sure timing is off as well.
              The strobe didn't work ( of course), so I'll have to use the more primitive bulb trick.
              Back for that tomorrow.

              But it runs much better already! Went higher without popping, it's just not perfect.
              Tomorrow better. Or maybe tonight.

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by Hovmod View Post
                One thing: my intake boots are fine. Nice and soft. However, they do NOT have anywhere for orings to go (really. I'll post pics once they're off. ), so I gave them a seal against the top using rgb silicone. Dumb? Problem?
                Look at the photo here and you'll see the ringland where you need new O-rings. When they're flat and parallel with the boot surface, I suppose it's easy to conclude that there's no o-ring in there. Actually, there's nothing that looks like an O-ring, but what's left of it will be there.
                and God said, "Let there be air compressors!"
                __________________________________________________ ______________________
                2009 Suzuki DL650 V-Strom, 2004 HondaPotamus sigpic Git'cha O-ring Kits Here!

                Comment


                  #9
                  Yes. OK.
                  I tried to pry out something much like that, but the Orings I got from the shop were obviously "large", because, well, they were bigger.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by old_skool
                    Ok, I hate to do this to ya, and it may not change much or could have a drastic impact, but you need to order the o-rings for the carbs, and pull those 2 items the manual said not to, there's o-rings in there too. rebuild using new o-rings, as the old ones may have worked, but you disturbed their long sitting positions, and you really can't tell if they will seal right just by feel. They may not be working as they should, so by doing this, you'll have done the carb build right and eliminated one possible problem from the equation.
                    The valves can cause some issues if not adjusted properly and will make a big difference on how the bike performs when adjusted to the higher limits.
                    Double or triple check your point setup, ditching that system for an electronic ignition when it becomes affordable to you is the way to go for a happier ignition. Check the wires going to your coils, this is an area which causes a lot of problems with resistance and run-ability issues, it sounds like a couple cylinders just weren't firing right, possible poor connections or poor voltage in this area. You may want to replace plug boots, they unscrew, cut off about a half an inch/12mm of old plug wire before installing new boots, fouled plugs may be ok if cleaned or may never fire right again and need replaced, sorry for all the various suggestions, but, basic maintenance needs to be done to eliminate some misc problems in the works along with it needs to be done anyway, I don't think we'll find the magic bullet till some items are settled. Still betting on the ignition dropping out somewhere. We have a few guys pretty sharp on the ignition system whom will hopefully chime in soon and lend a hand with some basic diagnostics and resistance checking.
                    The petcock leaking is trouble...may also cause some of the richness, get that taken care of also, don't care how it ran before while it was leaking, it's not running that way now, and may have been a contributor to the total failure.
                    All of this and...
                    You changed all of the timing parameters when you replaced the engine parts.

                    At the very least, replace the petcock, carb O-rings, manifold O-rings, valve shims and adjust the points/timing.
                    Replace or clean the spark plugs.

                    Questions:
                    Why would anyone re-use the O-rings when they are readily available for so little money?
                    Why would you NOT remove the pilot jets and mixture screws?

                    The pilot jets are probably the smallest orifice that fuel has to go though and the most important jets in the carbs, IIHO.

                    Eric

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by 7981GS View Post
                      Questions:
                      Why would anyone re-use the O-rings when they are readily available for so little money?
                      Why would you NOT remove the pilot jets and mixture screws?
                      Answers:

                      O-rings: Because they are not readily available here in my town, and because they feel and look fresh, and because I can replace them next time I take everything apart in a couple months.

                      Pilot: Because both the Haynes and the Suzuki service manuals made an extra effort telling me NOT TO TOUCH the pilot jet and air screw. Again, I can (and will) do them when the season's over.

                      Idling isn't the issue anyway, so I don't think that's where my problems are.


                      The gaps and timing were way off.
                      Shims I'll get next week.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        It has also been covered hundreds of times that how heavily you reoil the K&N is gonna effect it running like its being choked to death. I personally dont have much faith in the K&N hype. I stay with OEM designed filters all the way around. In fact a guy just went thru about 3 weeks of aggrivation and numerous teardowns and struggle just to find this very thing was happening with his K&Ns.
                        MY BIKES..1977 GS 750 B, 1978 GS 1000 C (X2)
                        1978 GS 1000 E, 1979 GS 1000 S, 1973 Yamaha TX 750, 1977 Kawasaki KZ 650B1, 1975 Honda GL1000 Goldwing, 1983 CB 650SC Nighthawk, 1972 Honda CB 350K4, 74 Honda CB550

                        NEVER SNEAK UP ON A SLEEPING DOG..NOT EVEN YOUR OWN.


                        I would rather trust my bike to a "QUACK" that KNOWS how to fix it rather than a book worm that THINKS HE KNOWS how to fix it.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Orings are an email or PM away to Robert Barr here on the forum..for 22.00 you can get the full carb kit as well as new intake boot orings..cycleorings.com
                          MY BIKES..1977 GS 750 B, 1978 GS 1000 C (X2)
                          1978 GS 1000 E, 1979 GS 1000 S, 1973 Yamaha TX 750, 1977 Kawasaki KZ 650B1, 1975 Honda GL1000 Goldwing, 1983 CB 650SC Nighthawk, 1972 Honda CB 350K4, 74 Honda CB550

                          NEVER SNEAK UP ON A SLEEPING DOG..NOT EVEN YOUR OWN.


                          I would rather trust my bike to a "QUACK" that KNOWS how to fix it rather than a book worm that THINKS HE KNOWS how to fix it.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Chuck, he is in Norway and it will take a little longer/cost a little bit more to get to him.
                            Still, no good excuse for not getting them and doing it correctly.

                            Eric

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Look, I would have been prepared with stuff like O-rings and shims if I had planned this tear-down. As it happened, the bike was suddenly leaking oil.
                              No planned maintenance occurs during the ridiculously short season we have here.

                              I'm doing it again, with O-rings. In a couple months.

                              Comment

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