Running rich, I need some advice, please

[gs450sjip]

OK just a shot in the dark here but are the enrichener's closing up completely?. I have had this happen in the past. They sometimes appear to be closing but not completely.

HJFISK,

That did enter my mind. I tried pushing down on the rod when "off" just to see if they move any, they don't seem to. The carb diagram does not show any o-rings or seals on the enrichener other than the gasket that I can see. The lever does not hang up when operated. When I use the enrichener when it just starts up, it will kill the motor. gs450sjip

[gs450sjip]

Don't worry, we are on the same page. Changing the float level will make a difference, and the cost is time only, no money. And you will still be within spec.
I thought you dipped these carbs, am I remembering incorrectly?
To remove the screws, use a really thin pair of needle nose pliers. I have a pair you can borrow if you want to come over and pick them up.
It would be really interesting to see the tips of those screws. Just imagine if the tips were broken off; you would have exactly the performance you are witnessing.
Neither one of the events you are witnessing makes any sense at all. First and foremost, why in the world is it so rich with the stock pilot jets installed? And why won't it restart when warmed up? Possibly related to the first, but you won't know until you solve the first one.

koolaidkid,

No, it doesn't make sense. The carbs were dipped in Berrymans carb cleaner, then aerosol carb cleaner in the passages, then air compressor. I think the restart when hot problem is from the richness. It will restart when cold. I will raise the float height another .030 in. and try to remove the mix screws. btw, I drilled the plugs out on the mix screws, no issues with that. Thanks gs450sjip

[hjfisk]

I just pushed on the rod a little and realized that with the plungers were still hanging on the little fork things in the closed position, so I tweaked them a little so the rod had a little movement from closed position until they started to open[ freeplay if you will]between the forks and the plungers. just a thought. . It really doesn't take much to make it run rich off this circuit. if it hangs just a hair open is enough to miss things up. Also how are the ends of the plungers are the still in good shape where they seal to the carb body?

[gs450sjip]

I just pushed on the rod a little and realized that with the plungers were still hanging on the little fork things in the closed position, so I tweaked them a little so the rod had a little movement from closed position until they started to open[ freeplay if you will]between the forks and the plungers. just a thought. . It really doesn't take much to make it run rich off this circuit. if it hangs just a hair open is enough to miss things up. Also how are the ends of the plungers are the still in good shape where they seal to the carb body?

hjfisk,

I didn't notice anything when I cleaned them. There is a spring on the assembly, I would think that applied pressure to seal them, even with a little freeplay. I did not examine them that closely when they were apart. I'll look again. gs450sjip

[hjfisk]

hjfisk,

I didn't notice anything when I cleaned them. There is a spring on the assembly, I would think that applied pressure to seal them, even with a little freeplay. I did not examine them that closely when they were apart. I'll look again. gs450sjip

The spring will close them completely , if the linkage rod is not holding them open a little. Just look and see if there is some free space at the end of the plunger where the little fork goes into the notch on the rod. If it is in contact with the plunger in the closed position it may be holding it open.

[hjfisk]

From reading through this post what ever the problem it is going to be something simple that is getting over looked I believe

[koolaid_kid]

From reading through this post what ever the problem it is going to be something simple that is getting over looked I believe

I cannot disagree. gs450sjip has done everything by the book as far as I can tell. Something very fundamental is going on here, it will be discovered. Most likely followed by a slap to the head and a "Doh!".

[gs450sjip]

From reading through this post what ever the problem it is going to be something simple that is getting over looked I believe

I really hope you're right! I have been messing with this stuff for decades and I don't remember a more challenging one than this. I will look for freeplay on the starter plunger rod/fork. Thanks! gs450sjip

[gs450sjip]

Welcome!

George is spot on with the pilots.

When attempting to jet mine originally I could only get the ones with the holes in the sides, always too rich no matter what I did. Went back to stock and they're ok, my richness is due to my mains and needles but that's a different story.

With your float height, did you set it as per the Clymer manual? If so, it's actually incorrect for the 80 - 82 models and should be 26.6mm +/- 1mm.

Also, you say you have a Dyna ignition, is that the DS3-3C kit? If so, how does it go? I'm loving mine...

Pete,

Please clarify the pilot jets on your bike. Were they originally with or without the side holes? I think some call them air bleeds. When you say too rich until you put the stock back in. I need cleared up on that, please. gs450sjip

[Steve]

Pete,

Please clarify the pilot jets on your bike. Were they originally with or without the side holes? I think some call them air bleeds. When you say too rich until you put the stock back in. I need cleared up on that, please. gs450sjip

You can't go by what was on his bike, you have to go by what is on yours.

He has a bike that was sold in a different world market, the jetting might have been a bit different over there ("Down Under").

If YOUR pilot jets had holes, you need to replace them with pilot jets with holes, but why are you replacing them in the first place? Stock ones work quite well, until you install a big-bore kit and extra-lumpy cams, along with a race header and pods.

.

[gs450sjip]

You can't go by what was on his bike, you have to go by what is on yours.

He has a bike that was sold in a different world market, the jetting might have been a bit different over there ("Down Under").

If YOUR pilot jets had holes, you need to replace them with pilot jets with holes, but why are you replacing them in the first place? Stock ones work quite well, until you install a big-bore kit and extra-lumpy cams, along with a race header and pods.

.

Steve,

I was trying to determine what made his bike rich or lean as far as the pilots go. We sell these here at my employer so I though I'd just replace all the jets with new ones, just so I had a starting point. I actually talked to a tech rep at Mikuni, he claims they are interchangeable. Right now, I can't tell any difference between them. If I get the richness out of it, it may make a difference then. I hope I get that far. GS450SJIP

[gs450sjip]

I cannot disagree. gs450sjip has done everything by the book as far as I can tell. Something very fundamental is going on here, it will be discovered. Most likely followed by a slap to the head and a "Doh!".

Gents,

I ran a test today and it could be revealing. I removed the foam filter and the lid on the airbox. The idle cleaned up considerably, almost no burbling.
It idled much smoother. However, when I tried to rev it into the mid range, it hesitated as expected. It was lean. At idle, it is still rich, but not as much as before. I actually turned the mixture screws in until seated, and it kept on running. I opened them to 1 1/2 turns out and there was no discernable difference. That suggests to me that the problem is in the idle circuit, or lack of one.

Any thoughts? Thanks, gs450sjip

[koolaid_kid]

That is why I was questioning the statement that you could not remove the mixture screws. Who cleaned your carbs?

[gs450sjip]

That is why I was questioning the statement that you could not remove the mixture screws. Who cleaned your carbs?

I dipped them, but the mix screws were not removed because I could not get them out, as I explained. I tried tweezers but they would not get a good grip. Suggestions? Thanks for all the help. gs450sjip

[koolaid_kid]

Excuse me just a minute..
BANGS HEAD!
BANGS HEAD!
BANGS HEAD!
BANGS HEAD!

O.K. I'm back. Do you have a dremel or something similar? What you will want to do is to turn the mixture screws all the way in. Then using a dremel or something similar, cut a slot across the cylinder that the screw fits down into. Then turn the screws back out and see if you can get to them. I'll try to find a description of the procedure. Back in a moment.