Running rich, I need some advice, please

[gs450sjip]

I'm certainly far from a guru when it comes to carbs... best I can do for myself is give them a good clean and make sure they're set per the manual. As for tuning, I just richened mine up to cater for the pods and pipe and left them that way for the time being although I really should try to tune them better.

Good stuff on the Dyna, and yeah the notching I did was not necessary after all that, could've left it alone quite easily.

The float height is definitely that much different. If you set them to 23 or so mm's you'll have too much fuel in the float bowls. I believe that's the right measurement for the older 400 and 425's and that Clymer just didn't update with the correct measurement for the 450's.

I know 26.6 is right as I got a factory reproduction manual and it's very clear in there that it really is that much different.

This may be a silly question but in your first post you said you swapped the needles and seats and floats, but did you try swapping the pilots and mixture screws as well? Are the pilots definitely the same size? If memory serves correct they should be 17.5's.

Pete,

Yes, the pilots are 17.5. I did not swap anything else at the time, I was tring to isolate the problem by doing one thing at a time. The float height is apparantly incorrect on this site also according to the link posted earier on this thread. 26.6 + or - 1mm is much different than what is listed. I will try that tonight. I'm hoping that helps.
If anyone is considering a Dynatek ignition for your GS450, I have a few extra spacers made up from non-magnetic stainless steel. It's a drop-in with the spacer. gs450sjip

[koolaid_kid]

What is an idle screw, please?
If you are speaking of the pilot air/fuel screw, a.k.a. the mixture screws, you should start at 2 1/2 turns out. With the proper pilot jets it will not run at 1/2 turn out. The idle speed screw is the big fat one in the rear middle that adjusts both carbs at once.
Keep us updated please.

[gs450sjip]

What is an idle screw, please?
If you are speaking of the pilot air/fuel screw, a.k.a. the mixture screws, you should start at 2 1/2 turns out. With the proper pilot jets it will not run at 1/2 turn out. The idle speed screw is the big fat one in the rear middle that adjusts both carbs at once.
Keep us updated please.

Sorry, I call it an idle screw, it is in fact the mixture screws. I can't get it to really "idle". Even with the screws at 1/2 turn out, it is so rich, it still runs. It is 40 degrees F here in the AM, no choke (enrichener) is needed to start it, it fires right up, it is that rich. Pete says the Factory Suzuki manual lists the float height much different than what is commonly published (even on this site). I will reset them tonight and post results tomorrow, wish me luck. Thanks to all for all the help! gs450sjip

[pete]

Fingers crossed! And can you point me to the place on here that has them wrong? I'm guessing I've missed that along the way... would like to get it corrected as it's not the first time someone's had issues setting them right.

[Legionnaire]

This diagram: http://members.dslextreme.com/users/...specs_v1.3.jpg on Bassclif's site says GS450s should be set at 23mm +/- 1.0mm, you guys are saying it should be 26.6mm? No wonder my bike is running so rich... lame I just readjusted to that today.

[gs450sjip]

Fingers crossed! And can you point me to the place on here that has them wrong? I'm guessing I've missed that along the way... would like to get it corrected as it's not the first time someone's had issues setting them right.

Pete,

The link listed by Legionaire has the incorrect heights. I reset mine to 26.7mm last night. I also reset the mixture screws to 1 1/2 turns out. This morning when cold and 60 degrees F, it started with no choke, ran "better" but still not drivable. It burbles, it is still rich. I didn't have much time this morning to fiddle with it. Although it did "idle" for the first time in 11 months, even if it is still too fat. Last night I ran it at 3500-4500 rpm for a few minutes to try and color the plugs. After getting hot, it will not restart till it cools off. It has plenty of spark and fuel at that time. The float height change was the first thing that had a positive effect. It is stiil rough when it runs, and the plugs are still black (although the plug chop I'm doing may not be conclusive). I have never driven this bike, so I do the best I can in the garage for now. Any thoughts? Thank you all for contributing. gs450sjip

[koolaid_kid]

Assuming the float height is correct and there are no air restrictions, it is time to step down on your pilot jets. If you have a set of 15s I would install those. Keep the mixture screws where they are. "Supposedly" one step is worth 2 turns of the mixture screws (YMMV).
Glad to hear it at least starts and runs, even though it is still too rich. And no, you won't be able to ride it until you get this sorted out, unfortunately.

[gs450sjip]

Assuming the float height is correct and there are no air restrictions, it is time to step down on your pilot jets. If you have a set of 15s I would install those. Keep the mixture screws where they are. "Supposedly" one step is worth 2 turns of the mixture screws (YMMV).
Glad to hear it at least starts and runs, even though it is still too rich. And no, you won't be able to ride it until you get this sorted out, unfortunately.

koolaidkid..

Do you think I can turn the mixture screws in some to get a feel of leaning it out at the idle settings? Maybe 1/2 to 3/4 turn out, just to see?
The 17.5 are what came from the factory. It seems that if I can turn the mix screws in until the bike won't even run, the pilot size shouldn't be too far out. I beleive with the fuel level too high as it was before, it ran no matter where the mix screws were set at. It should be leaner now with the lower fuel level. Another test might be to remove the foam air filter and airbox lid...just to see what happens. What do you think? gs450sjip

[pete]

Thanks for the link to the problematic info guys, I'll shoot a PM off to BassCliff to get it corrected... interestingly though there are no years marked against those entries so this could be interesting...

And back on topic... how oiled is your air filter? If it's too wet with oil it could cause it to run rich... probably not the issue but worth a thought maybe...

[koolaid_kid]

Although it should be correct at 2 1/2 turns out and need the choke to start, you can go down to 1/2 turns out and still run the engine. Any more than that and you have effectively removed the circuit from the equation.
Removing the lid will lean it out, as will removing the filter. But keep in mind you are creating an artificial situation to mask the actual issue(s).
You can also adjust your float height to minimize the fuel level and be perfectly legitimate.

[gs450sjip]

Although it should be correct at 2 1/2 turns out and need the choke to start, you can go down to 1/2 turns out and still run the engine. Any more than that and you have effectively removed the circuit from the equation.
Removing the lid will lean it out, as will removing the filter. But keep in mind you are creating an artificial situation to mask the actual issue(s).
You can also adjust your float height to minimize the fuel level and be perfectly legitimate.

KOOLAID KID,

I was only suggesting the removal of air filter components to confirm or deny it is in fact running "rich" and not suffering from something else. It is not the solution, I agree. According to the factory spec on float height, I can go another .030 inch. I don't know how much difference that would make? One thing I failed to mention was I can not remove the mixture screws once unscrewed. The o-ring is keeping them in the body even when loose. I screwed them back in of course. It is a long way from using 2 1/2 turns out and need the choke to start..a long way. I can't figure why it won't restart after reaching operating temperature. I checked for fuel and spark when that happens, all is well. Maybe it's just too rich?? gs450sjip

[gs450sjip]

Thanks for the link to the problematic info guys, I'll shoot a PM off to BassCliff to get it corrected... interestingly though there are no years marked against those entries so this could be interesting...

And back on topic... how oiled is your air filter? If it's too wet with oil it could cause it to run rich... probably not the issue but worth a thought maybe...

Pete,

The filter is oiled but squeezed until only "damp" with oil. I was going to remove it..just to see

This is really a trying test, this S model is from the original family, complete with service records, bill of sale from the dealer, everything. I really am anxious to drive it!

[hjfisk]

OK just a shot in the dark here but are the enrichener's closing up completely?. I have had this happen in the past. They sometimes appear to be closing but not completely.

[koolaid_kid]

KOOLAID KID,

I was only suggesting the removal of air filter components to confirm or deny it is in fact running "rich" and not suffering from something else. It is not the solution, I agree. According to the factory spec on float height, I can go another .030 inch. I don't know how much difference that would make? One thing I failed to mention was I can not remove the mixture screws once unscrewed. The o-ring is keeping them in the body even when loose. I screwed them back in of course. It is a long way from using 2 1/2 turns out and need the choke to start..a long way. I can't figure why it won't restart after reaching operating temperature. I checked for fuel and spark when that happens, all is well. Maybe it's just too rich?? gs450sjip

Don't worry, we are on the same page. Changing the float level will make a difference, and the cost is time only, no money. And you will still be within spec.
I thought you dipped these carbs, am I remembering incorrectly?
To remove the screws, use a really thin pair of needle nose pliers. I have a pair you can borrow if you want to come over and pick them up.
It would be really interesting to see the tips of those screws. Just imagine if the tips were broken off; you would have exactly the performance you are witnessing.
Neither one of the events you are witnessing makes any sense at all. First and foremost, why in the world is it so rich with the stock pilot jets installed? And why won't it restart when warmed up? Possibly related to the first, but you won't know until you solve the first one.

[koolaid_kid]

OK just a shot in the dark here but are the enrichener's closing up completely?. I have had this happen in the past. They sometimes appear to be closing but not completely.

How could you tell they were not closing completely, and what did you do to solve the issue? Any suggestions would be welcome at this point.