'82 GS550L starting woes - Clean carbs, has spark, no vroom vroom

[Plutoid]

After a trip to the hardware store for a new feeler gauge (the old one wasn't fine enough) I popped the valve cover and checked the clearance.

There ain't none. I can't even get the finest blade in. I wonder if I'm doing it right? I turned the engine to point the cam lobes up like it shows in the manual... :\ Spec is like .03mm-.08mm and I can't even get the .015mm in there. I only checked a few last night. What are the chances they're all out of whack? That's a lot of shims! Do they usually get tighter as stuff wears or looser? Bike has about 18K miles on it. I got it with 11.5K and never adjusted them.

As for the carbs, I didn't do the full dip but I don't think they're the problem. I sprayed 'em out and everything is clean. I checked every hole in every jet and every passage in the bodies.

The boots are sh*t, but I gooped the crap out of 'em when I reseated the carbs. I don't have the cash to go restoring everything to showroom condition.

[Plutoid]

There is a tube from the tank *near* the petcock, the main line off the petcock, and the vacuum tube. Pretty sure it's all stock. The line from the aftermarket valve that the PO put on it to the aftermarket fuel filter is clear. I can see the gas being sent as far as the filter and the bowls have gas in them.

Now that you mention it, though... I did try to start it yesterday and it sounded like it wanted to go (but didn't, of course) and it was WAY closer than when I first slapped the carbs on. Maybe there is some sort of disruption between the tank and the cabs and it actually took a day for enough gas to drip down into the bowls. That would also explain why it would run once it's started - because the vacuum power from the running engine is way stronger than the engine just trying to turn over.

More to think about!

[tom203]

Let's review- you put 6.5 k miles on it without checking valves; don't count on the PO's being maintenance fanatics, so we could be talking 12 k ( or more ) miles without a valve check. The small clearance gets even smaller as valves seat in, if an exhaust valve didn't get to close completely (and cool off against seat) it would be unhappy.
You need to review the maintenance tips- they are intended to get your bike to run in "showroom condition" even if the bike is cosmetically challenged.

[mike_of_bbg]

My guess is that the feeler gauge you have is actually 0.0015", as in inches, 'cos that's what you're going to find at most parts stores. That translates to roughly 0.04mm, as the spec is given in mm. It's possible that some of the valves may be in-spec, but at the lower end. One thing to check is how hard it is to turn the buckets in checking position. Even if you can't get a feeler gauge in, if you can turn the bucket fairly easily the theory is that there's some amount of clearance which is above 0, just less than your thinnest gauge. In that case you can go with one size thinner shims and you'll be in-spec, because you'll raise your gap by 0.05mm. If you can't turn the bucket, your clearance is negative and you should go up two sizes.

You probably don't have to replace all of your shims. You'll find various sizes in there. So when you need to replace a 2.65 with a 2.60, you might find a 2.60 elsewhere or you'll also have a 2.70 you want to replace. For this reason you'll want to remove the shims and catalog what you have - you'll find that there will be plenty of opportunities to swap smaller ones in there. It helps to have digital calipers or a metric micrometer available, as the sizes are printed on the underside of the shims but invariably a few have worn off.

[Steve]

There ain't none. I can't even get the finest blade in. I wonder if I'm doing it right? I turned the engine to point the cam lobes up like it shows in the manual...

OK, just to make sure, because the manuals aren't very clear on this: start with the exhaust lobe on #1 is pointing forward and the lobe for #2 is pointing up. Measure clearance on BOTH #1 and #2 exhaust. Rotate the crank 180 degrees (that's 1/2 turn), you will see that the #1 intake lobe is pointing up and #2 intake is pointing backward. Measure BOTH #1 and #2 intakes. Rotate the crank another 180 degrees, you will see that #4 exhaust is pointing forward, #3 exhaust is pointing up. Measure BOTH #3 and #4 intakes. Rotate the crank a final 180 degrees, you will see that intake #4 is pointing up and intake #3 is pointing backward. You guessed it, measure BOTH #3 and #4 intakes.
Since you will need a handy place to record these numbers, I will invite you to read my signature.

Spec is like .03mm-.08mm and I can't even get the .015mm in there.

Where did you find a set of feelers with a .015mm?

My guess is that you have a set of INCH feelers that have both inch and metric markings on them, because the thinnest feeler in that set is usually .0015". Please note that extra zero in the number. It is very easy to get confused between the inch and metric specs here. The metric specs are .03-.08 mm, the inch specs are (approximately) .001-.003". Note that they both contain a measurement with a "3" in them, but one is the minimum, the other is the maximum and there are a different number of zeroes before the three. It does not really matter which system you use, just stick with ONE system and be consistent.

I only checked a few last night. What are the chances they're all out of whack? That's a lot of shims! Do they usually get tighter as stuff wears or looser? Bike has about 18K miles on it. I got it with 11.5K and never adjusted them.

What are the chances? I think you answered your own question, but did not realize it. The original owner might have taken the bike in for its first check at 600 or 1000 miles, but it probably has not been done since then. You got the bike with 11.5k on it, it now has 18k. Have you read the manual? You are supposed to check them everh 3k miles. Yep, assuming that they had been checked when you bought the bike, they should have been done at 14.5k and 17.5k, so it's definitely OVERDUE. The valves always tighten up, which makes the bike harder to start. (Gee, Ii wonder if that should raise any flags? )

As for the carbs, I didn't do the full dip but I don't think they're the problem. I sprayed 'em out and everything is clean. I checked every hole in every jet and every passage in the bodies.

I highlighted the important part of your statement.

How did you check every passage in the bodies? The REALLY important ones can't be seen, and have several branches, so trying to spray something through them will only re-direct the spray out another hole. Sorry, but it's REALLY important that they are cleaned properly with a full "strip and dip", then install new o-rings in the carbs and intake boots (get the o-rings from cycleorings.com).

The boots are sh*t, but I gooped the crap out of 'em when I reseated the carbs. I don't have the cash to go restoring everything to showroom condition.

OK, you think we have been hard on you before this? Just wait.

What did you use to "goop theh crap out of 'em"? Most of the likely stuff that is used to goop them up WILL NOT WORK. They HAVE to be replaced. You don't have to consider replacing them as "restoring to showroom condition", but please consider them to be a rather important SAFETY item. Yep, SAFETY. If the engine is not running right, you have no idea how or when it's going to crap out on you. Might be in the left lane of the freeway during rush hour (good luck getting to the right shoulder), might be half-way through one of your favorite corners at a "brisk" rate of speed. Why not just spend a bit of money to get it running right so you can ENJOY your bike?

.

[Plutoid]

Sounds right. 6 out of 8 valves were too tight for my feeler gauge (thinnest is .04mm, or, .0015" as suggested above. I misremembered.) The other two were .06 and .08 or so.

I sprayed carb cleaner in all the holes, let it sit, repeated... Hmm.


Black silicone gasket maker. I was just told last night that that's a bad idea. :\ The boots must be replaced, eh? Those little buggers are expensive! Do y'all have some secret shop you guys go to for stuff like that? A quick google says that they're like $160. What about valve shims? Do you recommend a homemade tool or the Suzuki valve shim tool? Any ingenious improvisations?

[mike_of_bbg]

gssuzuki.com

boulevardsuzuki.com

Both of these vendors have great prices on OEM parts. The boots will run about $100 for a full set, new. Good to go for 25 more years. You can get new boot o-rings with your carb o-ring set from Robert Barr at cycleorings.com.

2 each of parts 18 and 19:

http://www.boulevardsuzuki.com/fiche_section_detail.asp?section=93299&category=Motorcycles&make=SUZUKI&year=1981&fveh=2112

Sometimes Boulevard will have coupon deals for free shipping or $$$ off orders over a certain amount, but I can't find one right now.

[mike_of_bbg]

On the valve shims, I like using the valve shim tool from Motion Pro as available for $15 at Z1 Enterprises or probably on eBay too. Some don't like the MP tool - Steve is one of those people. There is a risk that if the tool slips off of the bucket your hardened shim will be shattered and pieces will fly all over your open head. Never felt like mine would slip, but maybe there are variations in machining quality.

There is an alternative, which is to use the "zip tie" method. It involves sticking a folded zip tie between an open valve and its seat to not let it close fully and create a gap to remove the shims through. It's free and you probably have the materials necessary already. The main risk here is that if you don't use a tough enough zip tie it could break and leave pieces in your cylinder.

Make 100% certain you do not turn the motor over without a shim in every bucket! The buckets can damage the cam shafts!

Did you ever get your "Mega-welcome" from BassCliff? He has documents describing both processes on his site:

http://members.dslextreme.com/users/bikecliff/

http://members.dslextreme.com/users/bikecliff/images/gs850valve_adjust.pdf

http://members.dslextreme.com/users/bikecliff/images/valve_tool_zip_tie.pdf

[Steve]

On the valve shims, I like using the valve shim tool from Motion Pro as available for $15 at Z1 Enterprises or probably on eBay too. Some don't like the MP tool - Steve is one of those people.

Yep, that's me.

There is a risk that if the tool slips off of the bucket your hardened shim will be shattered and pieces will fly all over your open head.

You think we are kidding about that?




This shim was in my Kawasaki, but the principle is the same. The tool slipped off the side of the bucket before the shim was fully seated in the bucket. I spent the better part of an hour fishing around the head with a magnet, then almost another hour re-assembling the pieces. I felt comfortable enough that the one little piece that I could not find did not pose much of a threat, so I went ahead and finished my valve adjustment.

.

[Plutoid]

Wowza! Maybe you could put a shim between the block and the bucket to hold the tool in place? Maybe a 2.65mm?

[Plutoid]

The zip tie method works like a dream. I tested the zip tie with a vise grips to make sure it wouldn't snap before attempting.

[exdirtbiker]

On various bikes / makes, I have experienced everything mentioned above, except the cracked shim.
And the ever-popular "runs good till it warms up"....
my smoking guns were:
bad float height
bad stator
bad CDI units { due to bad ground wire} ( 83 VF750C ate 3 pair ignitor boxes at $150/pr used before I found the actual cause of the failures )

I would do all the suggestions listed above... then check wiring again. Are you -sure- you still have good blue spark after it "died" ? not a wimpy yellow spark ?
I'm not convinced your problems are all fuel related.

[mike_of_bbg]

Their may be an electrical element to this. But, he knows his boots are junk and did say that his plugs were dry. If you're going to replace the boots anyway, those carbs have to come off. Might as well clean 'em while you're in there and see how it does after first. And since you have the tank off and the valves haven't been done in a while...

If you give a mouse a cookie...

[Plutoid]

Hmm. I think it was yellow. Did have an arc though.

[Plutoid]

I'm going to do those valve shims while I've got it all pulled apart. That's my first order of business. I'm gonna need, like, 5 or 6 of 'em. Where's a guy get some on the cheap?

Just a question, but has anyone here tried honing the valve shims down to the needed thickness and polishing them?