HELP! GS450 Float Bowl Leaking (Lots of Pictures/Videos)

[Legionnaire]

So I have a 1981 GS450E and the carbs used to be totally fine, and then the right one started a slow leak. I opened the carbs up and when I was done and went to tighten them down the carb body threads seemed to be stripping which made my stomach drop.

I turned my bike on one day and the gas was SPEWING out of the left carb this time, it leaked a little bit while the bike was off, but just SPEWED it when it was on. So I vice gripped the fuel line and stopped for the night. So I decided that I need to up the bolts to make sure the floats were tight.

I just recently tapped it from an M4 to an M5 and now the float bowls are on really tight like it used to be. But I put them back on and when the bike is on the side stand turned off it spews just as must fuel as it did when it was turned on before. It's a non stop leak. My petcock has an ON and a RES switch, and they both let the fuel continually flow into the carbs. I am pretty sure the ON should not let gravity flow the fuel down, but I don't think this is my main issue.

The float needle should stop the fuel from coming in before the gas even gets high enough to get to the float gasket, right? So here are some pictures/videos with explanations on what I tried and what looks worn out, etc:

My floats...well float:



VIDEO: (Floats do not seem to be stuck, bounce nicely)

http://youtu.be/adrVe4n6fm0

I kind of vaguely remember pulling off the carbs when they had gas in them and shaking it and only hearing the non-leaking side float move, what would make a totally clean float get stuck when submerged in gas?

One of my needle jets is a little banged up, would that effect anything, it also pulls out by hand...

Good:


Bad:


VIDEO: (Pulling out needle jet out by hand)

http://youtu.be/1ALiuLIMfLk

Here are my needle jets, I was wondering if they are in a good state, or if that little ring around the tip could actually cause all my problems:



My floats are actually different sizes, the carbs worked great the whole time till now even with different size floats:



Here is the valve seats, the gaskets aren't torn and the insides of these guys look nice and smooth, no gunk:





So I was thinking that it was my gaskets as my first idea, but they look fine and are tightened up real nice, plus the gas should't go above the gaskets in the first place right, not just sitting there at least. The needle jets should stop the fuel intake.

I set my floats to 26.6mm (Bassclif's diagram is apparently wrong, and another member told me 26.6mm is the right place to be)

I put the needle jet and float from the non leaking carb and put it in the leaking carb and the original leaky carb is still leaking.

Right now my main ideas/solutions are:

1. Buy new float bowl gaskets
2. Buy new valve seat/needle jet/gasket
3. Buy new petcock

I was also thinking about saying screw it all and just buying these:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/SUZUKI-GS-450-GS450-80-82-REBUILT-MIKUNI-CARBS-/330796425843?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item4d0500e273&vxp=mtr

Here is a petcock too: http://www.ebay.com/itm/SUZUKI-GS450...198260&vxp=mtr

If anyone could give me some advice I would be eternally grateful, I really need a fresh pair of eyes to point out the obvious for me, thanks!

Here is something extra that I don't think pertains to this, when I dipped the carbs part of one of the carbs was at the fluid line and it left this gnarly line around a lot of the carb. Also the carbs used to have an aluminum shiny/smoothyness to them and now after this carb dip they are rough and feel like they are deteriorating. With a clean finger I can wipe my finger on the carb and my finger is gray and dusty:



HERE IS A VIDEO OF THE ALMIGHTY FUEL LEAK ITSELF: http://youtu.be/e18ujma2Rm8

[azr]

Are you sure the fuel is not coming from the fuel T. Lots of times it is pouring from there but 'looks' like it is coming from the float bowl. Your one float needle does look fairly dull but it was working before so 'should' be ok but why not order a couple for the next time you're in there. Pretty easy to check your petcock. Just take of the tank turn it to 'run' and see if fuel come out, if any fuel is dripping or pouring out she's toast and if this is the case it will definatly cause fuel to overflow in your carbs. As well you had better check your oil as there is probably gas in it from your petcock leaking. To check that the vacuum is working simply suck on the vacuum line while it is attached to the petcock while it is turning to 'on' and fuel should only flow when you ad vacuum. With that loose needle jet I can't imagine it's a good thing it comes out so easily, imagine if that came out while riding. You just need a new o-ring and it 'should' seat better. You did put in all new o-rings after dipping the carbs, right?

[Big Rich]

You say the floats "float", but try submerging them in gas over night. If you pull them out and there is any liquid inside, they may have a pin hole and actually sink.

[Legionnaire]

Are you sure the fuel is not coming from the fuel T. Lots of times it is pouring from there but 'looks' like it is coming from the float bowl. Your one float needle does look fairly dull but it was working before so 'should' be ok but why not order a couple for the next time you're in there. Pretty easy to check your petcock. Just take of the tank turn it to 'run' and see if fuel come out, if any fuel is dripping or pouring out she's toast and if this is the case it will definatly cause fuel to overflow in your carbs. As well you had better check your oil as there is probably gas in it from your petcock leaking. To check that the vacuum is working simply suck on the vacuum line while it is attached to the petcock while it is turning to 'on' and fuel should only flow when you ad vacuum. With that loose needle jet I can't imagine it's a good thing it comes out so easily, imagine if that came out while riding. You just need a new o-ring and it 'should' seat better. You did put in all new o-rings after dipping the carbs, right?

Well there is gas dripping from higher points than the fuel t-line, so I don't see how it could be that but I will check that again right now. Where is the best place to get new float needles because the OEM sites sell them in pairs with the seats and I don't feel like spending $50 a piece, thanks!

Well the petcock flows fuel in the "ON" and "RES" position, so "ON" is the position where it needs the vacuum to make the fuel go down, but it actually just goes with just gravity. I smelled my oil and it seems fine, but I do believe my petcock has been acting like this for a long time, plus one one carb leaks, wouldn't both leak if the petcock was forcing them to overfill?

After dipping the carbs THIS time no, but I dipped them maybe 2 months ago and I put in all new o-rings from cycle-orings.

Okay Rich I will definitely try to leave them overnight!

[Legionnaire]

So I took another video really examining where it is leaking from and here it is:

http://youtu.be/Y2At1jYwi6Q

In the description it says skip to the 0:52 second mark, it's the clearest to see the leak, thanks everyone!!

Where the carbs are perfectly straight no leak happens, but if you tilt it at all it just non-stop flows out of this spot with the petcock "ON" and "RES"

I am thinking gaskets, but either way it shouldn't just CONTINUE to flow like that.

[Big Rich]

Looks like a gasket to me too. But a new petcock seems like a great idea as well.......

[Legionnaire]

Looks like a gasket to me too. But a new petcock seems like a great idea as well.......

Okay thanks for the advice, but this all makes sense right... pretend the bike was just sitting there on the kickstand, would the float bowls really fill up high enough to escape through the gasket if EVERYTHING else functioned properly?

Don't the needle jets/floats stop the bowl from getting full enough to go over the gasket?

[Nessism]

For one thing, those carbs are filthy. You need to fully break them down and soak all the parts in carb dip per the carb rebuild tutorial. The general purpose CV carb type rebuild tutorial is linked in my signature, and a 450 specific version is on Basscliff's website.

Replace all the O-rings, the intake pipe O-rings, and get some new float needles, needle jets (at least the one in the photo), and the float that doesn't fit right. Oh, and you need a new petcock. Someone monkeyed around inside the carbs big time, so you need to make everything right otherwise you have no chance of getting your bike to run right.

Short cuts are long cuts when it comes to carbs. Please fix them right ONE time.

Good luck

[Big Rich]

I think you mean float needles - the needle jets are above the main jets. But yes, you're correct about the floats stopping gas flow. In my experience however, a full tank of gas has enough pressure to over power the floats / float needles and flood the motor.

With a perfect fuel system, gas wouldn't get past the petcock without the motor running. When in doubt - replace what is needed. It's truly not worth the risks.

[Legionnaire]

For one thing, those carbs are filthy. You need to fully break them down and soak all the parts in carb dip per the carb rebuild tutorial. The general purpose CV carb type rebuild tutorial is linked in my signature, and a 450 specific version is on Basscliff's website.

Replace all the O-rings, the intake pipe O-rings, and get some new float needles, needle jets (at least the one in the photo), and the float that doesn't fit right. Oh, and you need a new petcock. Someone monkeyed around inside the carbs big time, so you need to make everything right otherwise you have no chance of getting your bike to run right.

Short cuts are long cuts when it comes to carbs. Please fix them right ONE time.

Good luck

I just tore down the carbs COMPLETELY and soaked them for two days in carb cleaner, other than the one carb that sat at the fluid line they seem to look clean. I am really not kidding I soaked them for sooooo long, sprayed them and blew air in all the wholes. I think they look bad because of what I was saying about the surface feeling dusty.

They used to have a sheen to them, they looked metal now after this soak they look/feel like gray clay sort of like they are deteriorating. And before this soak I JUST soaked them maybe a month ago following the GS450 carb rebuild completely both times.

The o-rings were replaced maybe 3 months ago, along with the intake o-rings. I just don't understand why all this is happening now because I got the bike like this and it worked fine even with the petcock flowing when "ON" I have been riding it fine for months and now this is happening.

I was also wondering where I should buy float needles? Because the OEM site doesn't sell them alone. I would also like to know where to buy needle jets because they are discontinued on the OEM parts sites as well, thanks a lot ahead of time!

[Legionnaire]

I think you mean float needles - the needle jets are above the main jets. But yes, you're correct about the floats stopping gas flow. In my experience however, a full tank of gas has enough pressure to over power the floats / float needles and flood the motor.

With a perfect fuel system, gas wouldn't get past the petcock without the motor running. When in doubt - replace what is needed. It's truly not worth the risks.

Okay so it sounds like a new petcock, float bowl gaskets, float needles, and my one needle jet should be replaced and then go from there?

Would this petcock work okay, or should I go with a 100% OEM one?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/SUZUKI-GS450-550-650-700-750-850-1100-FUEL-PETCOCK-/270987264608?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3f18198260&vxp=mtr

[Big Rich]

I think Z1 has the petcock as well (which if it's only a couple dollars more, I would buy from them instead).

As far as the oem carbs parts go, I can't really help too much. Sudco might be able to get them, but I haven't looked at individual carb parts for stock carbs for quite some time.

[Legionnaire]

I think Z1 has the petcock as well (which if it's only a couple dollars more, I would buy from them instead).

As far as the oem carbs parts go, I can't really help too much. Sudco might be able to get them, but I haven't looked at individual carb parts for stock carbs for quite some time.

The petcock is actually half of the OEM dealer site, hell yeah! I am gonna order one of those, but the part that makes me nervous is that the metal on my carbs is deteriorating because it honestly feels rough to the touch after the carb dip, it doesn't even feel like metal. It also rubs off so if gas is flowing through it I feel like it's gonna be nonstop dirty...

I am really contemplating buying those carbs off eBay, because I have no clue what the carb dip did to my carbs and by the time I buy all the OEM parts to replace on my carbs I might as well just buy those refurb ones, bad idea?

EDIT: I take that back all the repairs to my carbs is NO where near the price of those carbs, but I am only worried because my stripped out bolt holes on the carb body and the metal finish.

[GateKeeper]

What did you dip your carbs in, to get that rough finish ?

[Legionnaire]

What did you dip your carbs in, to get that rough finish ?

Berryman Carb Dip, I have used it twice before with no issues