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Lean on tip-in; choke issues

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    #16
    Let me explain something about VM carbs.

    How does the transition off pilot to main curcuits happen..By the slides going up and changing the diameter of the venturi..which changes the air pressure to a lower pressure.
    This makes a low pressure area around the air jet which sticks up in the middle of the carb throat, which in turn, causes fuel to be sipped up the hole and into the carb and then into the cylinder. ( picture a full to the rim pop bottle and you suck the pop from the rim with your mouth) Your mouth has created a low pressure around the rim of the bottle and you can sip pop (fuel )up from it. This is the basic same principle that the carb is doing.

    If the jet needle is too LOW into the needle jet, then you dont get the right timing for the fuel to be sucked up..nor the right amount.

    The pilot jet supplies fuel up to AND thru the transition from pilot to main curcuit. So if the pilot jet is too small for the requirements of the setup, you will get a stutter, stumble, call it what you want during the transition. So you need the jet needle setting AND the correct pilot size to compliment each other to effectively make a smooth and strong transition.

    As for why the stock airbox is better. Simply put, it supplies a tad bit of resitance to the air flow ( which has been figured at the engineering level ).
    This restriction also add to the low pressure inside the venturi to make the carbs suck the fuel up thru the needle jets more efficiently.

    If you take the pods off and just lay a red shop rag over the carb throats and start the bike, youll see that it runs up better and with less stumble than it will without anything there at all. This is why these Suzukis always run better with the stock boxes. I will post in a follow up an article that is very informational and will support what I have just said.

    Also note that fuel levels in the bowl will also effect if the mixture is lean or rich. Very HIGH fuel levels will make the carbs run richer because the require a leeser low pressure in the venturi for them to sip fuel from the bowls...just the opposite for too LOW a fuel level.
    Last edited by chuck hahn; 03-30-2013, 12:54 AM.
    MY BIKES..1977 GS 750 B, 1978 GS 1000 C (X2)
    1978 GS 1000 E, 1979 GS 1000 S, 1973 Yamaha TX 750, 1977 Kawasaki KZ 650B1, 1975 Honda GL1000 Goldwing, 1983 CB 650SC Nighthawk, 1972 Honda CB 350K4, 74 Honda CB550

    NEVER SNEAK UP ON A SLEEPING DOG..NOT EVEN YOUR OWN.


    I would rather trust my bike to a "QUACK" that KNOWS how to fix it rather than a book worm that THINKS HE KNOWS how to fix it.

    Comment


      #17
      Heres a good editorial with links to click on for Mikuni and Keihin carbs.


      MY BIKES..1977 GS 750 B, 1978 GS 1000 C (X2)
      1978 GS 1000 E, 1979 GS 1000 S, 1973 Yamaha TX 750, 1977 Kawasaki KZ 650B1, 1975 Honda GL1000 Goldwing, 1983 CB 650SC Nighthawk, 1972 Honda CB 350K4, 74 Honda CB550

      NEVER SNEAK UP ON A SLEEPING DOG..NOT EVEN YOUR OWN.


      I would rather trust my bike to a "QUACK" that KNOWS how to fix it rather than a book worm that THINKS HE KNOWS how to fix it.

      Comment


        #18
        Agemax - too cocky? haha

        Chuck - That's super helpful. I also found this article when I was searching. It seems like a bit of an advertisement, but has some good explanations.



        While the extra power is nice (and pretty noticeable) looks like I'm going to start looking for another airbox, and will move the needles back, and go from there. Thanks for all the advice.

        Comment


          #19
          Originally posted by gearheadE30 View Post
          Agemax - too cocky? haha.
          but obviously right if you are reverting back to stock airbox instead of jetting it perfectly without a DJ kit yourself......
          1978 GS1085.

          Just remember, an opinion without 3.14 is just an onion!

          Comment


            #20
            Dropbox.com used to have many good OEM manufacturer articles. I had one bookmarked but now the link says error when i try to open it.
            MY BIKES..1977 GS 750 B, 1978 GS 1000 C (X2)
            1978 GS 1000 E, 1979 GS 1000 S, 1973 Yamaha TX 750, 1977 Kawasaki KZ 650B1, 1975 Honda GL1000 Goldwing, 1983 CB 650SC Nighthawk, 1972 Honda CB 350K4, 74 Honda CB550

            NEVER SNEAK UP ON A SLEEPING DOG..NOT EVEN YOUR OWN.


            I would rather trust my bike to a "QUACK" that KNOWS how to fix it rather than a book worm that THINKS HE KNOWS how to fix it.

            Comment


              #21
              I gotta say, I think the hardest part is admitting I was wrong hah.

              Manufacturer and other articles are getting a lot harder to find... I've started saving copies of any of the really good stuff I come across, because who knows how long it will be there, especially with all the noise being made about copyright infringement and such.

              Comment


                #22
                Someone in another thread a few days ago posted something to the effect..it ran, but not good..... going back to stock jets and airbox took care of that.

                I see more threads with what am I doing wrong and such...then 3 months of friggin around and still it cant be ridden. LMAO.
                MY BIKES..1977 GS 750 B, 1978 GS 1000 C (X2)
                1978 GS 1000 E, 1979 GS 1000 S, 1973 Yamaha TX 750, 1977 Kawasaki KZ 650B1, 1975 Honda GL1000 Goldwing, 1983 CB 650SC Nighthawk, 1972 Honda CB 350K4, 74 Honda CB550

                NEVER SNEAK UP ON A SLEEPING DOG..NOT EVEN YOUR OWN.


                I would rather trust my bike to a "QUACK" that KNOWS how to fix it rather than a book worm that THINKS HE KNOWS how to fix it.

                Comment


                  #23
                  Yeah. It's tough because mine is literally all ironed out...except 0 to 1/8 throttle from 2000 to 3500 rpm. Which is a really annoying place for a lean spot when you ride around town a lot. Oh well. It's not a race bike, so the tradeoff from power to reliability is a good one.

                  Comment


                    #24
                    Well, I actually fixed my pod problem. It was just running too rich at idle. Ended up at 1 turn out on the fuel screws and 2.5 turns on the air. Then I rode in the rain for about a week and got fed up with the two outer carbs sucking water in, making the engine cut in and out when it got particularly stormy.

                    So now I'm back to running an airbox. No problems in the rain, and up to about 4500 it runs pretty much the same as it did with the pods. Unfortunately, the surge from 6000 to 8500 isn't nearly as strong. It's still there, just not quite as pronounced and addictive. And that beautiful intake roar, all gone. Too bad...

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