Flange bolts, any tips?

[ThrottleBack]

BTW engine heat is not sufficient.

I say heat the area around the bolt because i don't like to apply the heat directly to the bolt. Heating around the bolt has the same effect so it's just personal preference.

[OldVet66]

The aluminum will take plenty enough heat from a heated bolt to expand because of it's heat conduction characteristics. I would lean toward heating the bolt. A warm engine is not enough if the bolts are stuck, but after they are loosened and coated with anti-seize it will make it a lot easier. I have an old Vance and Hines 4-1 that I regularly remove for painting when any rust shows up because it was badly pitted to begin with. Heating the motor to operating temperature makes the bolts glide out.

[hikermikem]

Will probably have a buddy over for moral support too.

Put him to work... one of you can man the torch, the other using the PB Blaster & wrench/vise grips.

Couple of things going on when using heat to break those buggers free:

First, the galvanic cell that created the corrosion between the two dissimilar metals (carbon steel bolt/aluminum head) is largely a chemical bond. High heat (not engine heat) will help to break that bond.

Second, the two different metals each have different thermal coefficients of expansion, meaning they each expand at different rates. When hot, the aluminum will expand a bit more than the steel & essentially “release” its hold on the bolt.

BTW, I would use MAP gas because it's hotter; the mass of that aluminum head makes for a very good heat sink so you need to apply lots of heat to get it hot enough to work. Heat the bolt where it enters the head & don’t worry about melting the aluminum…

Follow Ed’s advice & take your time. Good to have a fire extinguisher handy as well, just in case!

Good luck

[exzachtly1]

Whelp, feeling fairly defeated now. Another bolt broken and 3 still on there that won't budge. So the count is 3 broken, 2 removed, 3 still on.

I didn't get the map gas because I didn't realize it would be $50 to purchase the gas + attachment. Figured I could make do with propane. Did many cycles of PB, heat, candle wax, tapping with a hammer, tried running the bike to get the engine hot. Used a shorter 1/4" socket driver as suggested.

The 3rd broken bolt is broken pretty close to the head, not flush but sticking out maybe 1mm or so.

At this point I don't want to mess with the last 3. Like many jobs of this nature, I'm finding myself in a position where I'm weighing the costs between just taking it somewhere vs. buying all the tools I'm gonna need to deal with this. The way I see it at this point is I will at least need:

Map gas for heating if I'm going to attempt the last 3 bolts
Dremel, if I need to slot the broken bolts
Drill bits if I need to drill out
Tap & die / Heli-coils for making new threads
etc...

figuring around a couple hundred bucks to do it the right way. For something I may only do once in my life.

What do you guys think... if I take it somewhere, is the better option to ride the bike in while it's still rideable (exhaust roughly attached still), or plan on just finishing the bolt mangling and taking the head off to go to a machine shop. What's the better option? I'm feeling like the last 3 bolts are a lost cause. I don't know why the two on #1 came off so easily and the rest are being so crappy...

[ThrottleBack]

those are all tools you will inevitably need anyway.

tools = investment

shop = flushing

[exzachtly1]

those are all tools you will inevitably need anyway.

tools = investment

shop = flushing

I'm inclined to agree with you, but I'm just doubting my abilities on this one. Maybe just frustrated. Seems this is going to take lots of time too, which is one of thing I don't have a bunch of these days. I'm lucky if I get a few hours on a weekend to work on my bike... so something like this is stopping me from riding potentially for weeks. Based on my last experience trying to drill a broken cylinder head cover bolt I'm definitely not feeling good about it.

I could more easily spend the money on tools if I worked on multiple bikes, or knew I'd own more in the future, but the reality is that probably won't be the case. That's the only reason I brought up the shop idea.... I just want the dang bolts out, I'm more than happy to do the rest!

I guess I'm willing to get the map gas and give that a try on the last 3. Just don't want to break any more of them. But that will have to wait til Sunday.

[loud et]

Whelp, feeling fairly defeated now. Another bolt broken and 3 still on there that won't budge. So the count is 3 broken, 2 removed, 3 still on.

I didn't get the map gas because I didn't realize it would be $50 to purchase the gas + attachment. Figured I could make do with propane. Did many cycles of PB, heat, candle wax, tapping with a hammer, tried running the bike to get the engine hot. Used a shorter 1/4" socket driver as suggested.

The 3rd broken bolt is broken pretty close to the head, not flush but sticking out maybe 1mm or so.

At this point I don't want to mess with the last 3. Like many jobs of this nature, I'm finding myself in a position where I'm weighing the costs between just taking it somewhere vs. buying all the tools I'm gonna need to deal with this. The way I see it at this point is I will at least need:

Map gas for heating if I'm going to attempt the last 3 bolts
Dremel, if I need to slot the broken bolts
Drill bits if I need to drill out
Tap & die / Heli-coils for making new threads
etc...

figuring around a couple hundred bucks to do it the right way. For something I may only do once in my life.

What do you guys think... if I take it somewhere, is the better option to ride the bike in while it's still rideable (exhaust roughly attached still), or plan on just finishing the bolt mangling and taking the head off to go to a machine shop. What's the better option? I'm feeling like the last 3 bolts are a lost cause. I don't know why the two on #1 came off so easily and the rest are being so crappy...

Dude, I have all that stuff if you need it.
Mapp gas with hose, valve, tip, ready to use
Helicoil set, drill , tap, ready to go.
Dremel, drill bits, cutoff wheels...... just let me know....I will put a care package together for you and bring it over.
Did I also mention I am pretty slick at getting out stuck/broken fasteners?
Here if you need the help Dont hesitate!

[exzachtly1]

Dude, I have all that stuff if you need it.
Mapp gas with hose, valve, tip, ready to use
Helicoil set, drill , tap, ready to go.
Dremel, drill bits, cutoff wheels...... just let me know....I will put a care package together for you and bring it over.
Did I also mention I am pretty slick at getting out stuck/broken fasteners?
Here if you need the help Dont hesitate!

Dang generous of you man. I may take you up on this, I really feel that this situation is just a lack of appropriate tools and experience. So that would be awesome. PM about to be sent...

[ThrottleBack]

Push through and get it done without a shop, it's worth it in the end.

[ThrottleBack]

Dude, I have all that stuff if you need it.
Mapp gas with hose, valve, tip, ready to use
Helicoil set, drill , tap, ready to go.
Dremel, drill bits, cutoff wheels...... just let me know....I will put a care package together for you and bring it over.
Did I also mention I am pretty slick at getting out stuck/broken fasteners?
Here if you need the help Dont hesitate!

love this place!

OP, stock the beer

[exzachtly1]

love this place!

OP, stock the beer

Hah, last line of my PM was "what kind of beer do you like"

[loud et]

Got your pm Zach.....
I am busy this weekend also, so yes, next week after work some night is great.
Just give me a days notice.
We will do whatever it takes.
I actually don't drink so you are off the hook for buying beer. Lol

[londonboards]

You will get there in the end my friend. It took me nearly 3 weeks to sort it out:

See: My GS1100 G Blog - Exhaust Bolts Out!

This is what you are looking for:



If I had snapped any, I would feel the necessity to take the head off and have a machine shop put it all back in order. If you are not an engineer with $100s of equipment and years of experience, you could end up needing a completely new head if things go wrong.

Good luck. Don't let the beast get you down. You will win in the end.

Greetings

[Steve]

I actually don't drink so you are off the hook for buying beer. Lol

My answer to that question is "A&W".



.

[loud et]

My answer to that question is "A&W".



.

Good pick. But Barqs has bite.