Flange bolts, any tips?

[exzachtly1]

Thanks for the encouragement. I'm not opposed to taking the head out if it comes to that; we'll see where loud_et and I get after this week

The worst one (so far) is the single one that broke off flush; I think we probably have a good shot at the other 2 broken ones since they have quite a bit sticking out still.

Here is where two of them broke, on #4... the nearly flush one I think could still be slotted and driven out with a flat screw driver.



loud_et I will hit you up soon when I know a good night. I'll get you some Barq's!

[1980GS1000E]

Switching to studs instead of using bolts will prevent this from happening again.

[ThrottleBack]

Switching to studs instead of using bolts will prevent this from happening again.

I'm ashamed I did not suggest this

[Steve]

Good pick. But Barqs has bite.

Did you know it also has caffein?

Not sure, but that just might be the "bite".

.

[exzachtly1]

Switching to studs instead of using bolts will prevent this from happening again.

I have a set of studs on hand, ready to go in. They are the zinc plated steel ones from mcmaster; I didn't get stainless because they were quite a bit more expensive. Plan to use a good bit of anti-seize too.

Is the idea with studs that you can use a nut cracker to get the nut off if it ever becomes seized?? Meaning that theoretically the studs should never have to come out? Assuming the worst case scenario that the nut becomes seized, and/or the stud becomes seized inside the head, what is the course of action if they need removed in the future?

[ThrottleBack]

The idea is that you can remove the nut and leave the stud in. The reason bolts break is the threaded shaft gets locked up in there and you basically twist the bolt and break it on the weak spot. With a stud there is no stressing against it because you are not attempting to remove it.

you can cut the nut off if need be.

[Nessism]

A bit obvious, but just want to comment that it's critical to NOT over torque the bolts when you try to remove them or they will break off. You MUST develop a feel for how much force is allowable, otherwise you will just break them. Use a torque wrench if needed and limit the force to 12-13 ft-lbs. The max spec force is 10 ft-lbs, but the bolts should tolerate a little more before breaking.

Repeating myself here, but heat the bolt red hot and make sure there is lot of spray on the bolt and threads. Turn both ways, in and out. You need to get the bolt to break loose a little. Even if it does though, don't try and force the screw just yet.

Go easy and keep working the heat and spray oil.

When you guys go drill out any of those broken screws, make sure you center punch the old bolt and drill in the center. Use a small bit at first and work it back and forth as necessary to get the first hole centered before moving up in size. LH drill bits work great, since as you get up to the final bit size, the nub will likely spin right out.

Good luck.

[exzachtly1]

You MUST develop a feel for how much force is allowable, otherwise you will just break them. Use a torque wrench if needed and limit the force to 12-13 ft-lbs. The max spec force is 10 ft-lbs, but the bolts should tolerate a little more before breaking.

I think I have a very good feel for this now, after breaking 3 of them
When the 2 that came out started moving, it was very obvious as they made a creaking, snapping noise as the corrosion broke. With the broken ones, I could feel the metal twisting before they broke. Definitely seems like one of those things you have to learn from experience...

[hikermikem]

With the broken ones, I could feel the metal twisting before they broke. Definitely seems like one of those things you have to learn from experience...

Yes, a VERY large number of members here who have broken their exhaust bolts while trying to remove the exhaust header... I'm a charter member of that club .

[exzachtly1]

Anyone have experience with these types of stud removers?

http://www.autozone.com/autozone/accessories/OEM-Metric-stud-remover-set/_/N-264d?itemIdentifier=391371_0_0_

loud_et and I have not been able to get together yet, so I've been brain storming. On the final 3 bolts that still seem VERY stuck, I'm wondering if it would be faster / more effective to just cut the heads of the bolts off with a cutoff wheel and then use these stud remover tools. Seems to me that being able to get the exhaust and flanges out of the way might make it easier to access everything, and the stud remover would probably provide torque on a stronger part of the bolt closer to where the threads enter the head.

Any thoughts on this idea?

[exzachtly1]

Bumping the thread again. I need some suggestions of where to go next. I have been trying to have a go at this myself the past few days. We had a death in the family last Thursday so loud_et and I weren't able to get together over the weekend. I'm going crazy not being able to ride my bike.

Ordered a dremel (black and decker, cheap one), got that in the mail. Bought some map gas. Tried last night and this morning, heating (red hot), cooling, spraying. A couple of them acted like they were going to do something... they gave a slight creaking noise when I turned the wrench (1/4" drive, btw) a bit. But I still cannot get them to go anywhere. Probably spent 2 hours at this by now. One of them is completely seized up again, and it looks like I got things so hot that I almost cracked/melted the metal of the flange.



If it were any of you guys, where would you go from here? I am so close to throwing in the towel and breaking the last 3 off so I can at least get the old exhaust off and start making some progress at removing the broken bolts. If I do that I will be facing 6 sheared bolts

Second option is to wait until probably this weekend for loud_et to stop by.

Is it even remotely possible to cut the heads of these off to avoid the risk of shearing the bolt too flush? I'm guessing the dremel wheel is too big for that.

[mvalenti]

I would keep at it with heat and penetrating oils.... when red hot work it back and forth rather than just one direction.... I might even go so far as to take a small drill bit 3/32 and drill a hole thru the middle of the bolt thru to get penetrating oil behind the bolt.... squirt it once a day for a week or so.... broken bolts suck..

[Agemax]

i would use a 3/8 ratchet at least. 1/4inch is to small and weedy.
a dremmel cut off wheel will cut the heads off the bolts easily allowing you to remove the exhaust. this will then give you better access to the remains to remove them

[exzachtly1]

I would keep at it with heat and penetrating oils.... when red hot work it back and forth rather than just one direction.... I might even go so far as to take a small drill bit 3/32 and drill a hole thru the middle of the bolt thru to get penetrating oil behind the bolt.... squirt it once a day for a week or so.... broken bolts suck..

Still working on it, still no love. I've been working 2 of the bolts practically all afternoon. Probably been through 5-10 spray/heat/cool cycles on each one at this point. Not budging really.

i would use a 3/8 ratchet at least. 1/4inch is to small and weedy.
a dremmel cut off wheel will cut the heads off the bolts easily allowing you to remove the exhaust. this will then give you better access to the remains to remove them

Only reason I was shying away from the 3/8 is because it seems to break them too easily. It's too hard to tell if the bolt is turning or breaking, until it's too late! I checked with my dremel and cutting wheels... I don't think there's a good angle on any of the bolts to cut them off. Not enough room.

I wish I had just busted them off from the get-go and removed the head to take to a machine shop or something. Any idea what that would cost? Is it very difficult to remove the head? I've only ever taken the valve cover off, that's as far as I've gotten in the engine.

I guess we'll see what loud_et and I can get done. Seems like the bike will be down for a while again. I don't know why I stupidly always decide to do this stuff when the weather is super nice.

[Agemax]

looking at that pic in post #41 i cant see why you cannot get a dremmel on it? you should at least easily get a hacksaw on that bolt head to shop it off, even if you have to use a blade on its own and wrap a cloth round it as a grip