Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Idle mixture question

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    Idle mixture question

    (Valves shimmed and carbs fully rebuilt this year, but carbs not yet synced)

    Yesterday I adjusted my idle mixture using the RPM method. It was a pretty hot day (low 90s F) and I did the adjustment outside using a fan after a short ride to warm it up. I did this adjustment at an idle of 1050 rpm. At the end of my initial adjustment I found that I could turn the screw 1/2 turn in either direction without affecting the RPM, so I figured that was a good place to be. I took the bike for a ride and found the idle, and just about everything that happens at low RPM, to be silky smooth. The bike started immediately and easily. However it felt like the bike lagged power when nailing the throttle. I suck at keeping track of this stuff, so I don't know exactly how many turns out the screws are. They were all pretty consistent, and my guess is they're at ~2.25 to 2.5 turns out.

    I went online and re-read the procedure and found that I should have leaned out the mixture as much as possible without a drop in RPM. I also read about using a lower RPM just for the adjustment, So I re-adjusted the mixture at ~900rpm and ended up about 3/8-1/2 turn in from where I was before - this was as lean as I could make it w/o dropping from highest RPM. I took the bike for a ride again and found the power was awesome. I would say the bike wasn't quite as silky smooth, but really hard to perceive a difference.

    My exhaust 'popped' before any of the adjustments, didn't seem to pop after the first, and pops again after the second - but I do have a small exhaust header leak at #1.

    Today I fired up the bike, it's about 10 degrees cooler. After a short minute I let off the choke and the RPMs were about 100-150 lower than where I set it yesterday. This led me to think I might have set the mixture a little lean - likely due to the temp of the bike and the temp outside. While I was out I adjusted the idle screw back up to ~1050rpm.

    I don't notice any 'issues' when giving it throttle - it goes right up to 3,500 and quickly settles back down to 1050 (RPM does fall just slightly faster from 3500-2500 than it does from 2500-1000), and there are no signs of the bike wanting to quit or sputter on accel/decel.

    I didn't adjust any 'air screws' as I don't believe my bike has them. What I'm curious about is if I could have the mixture screws lean but the idle adjustment rich, or something of that sort. Or maybe I just need to back out 1/4 turn due to the heat yesterday. I read about what happens when things are grossly maladjusted, but I didn't see any detailed descriptions of how to do the really fine tuning.

    Thanks for readin and any advice/suggestions, and sorry this got so long!

    Edit: I'm also curious how worn piston rings and valve seals can affect all this. Mine are within spec but at the low end and the bike uses oil.
    Last edited by Guest; 08-07-2016, 03:18 PM.

    #2
    Koolaid Kid (George) wrote a procedure on how to adjust the pilot screws. He added more details other than just looking for the highest idle.

    Sometimes the engine idle doesn't respond to tweaking the screws. When that's the case I just set them at 2.5 turns and see how the bike runs. The pilot screws only affect the running at idle and just off.
    Last edited by Nessism; 08-08-2016, 05:48 PM.
    Ed

    To measure is to know.

    Mikuni O-ring Kits For Sale...https://www.thegsresources.com/_foru...ts#post1703182

    Top Newbie Mistakes thread...http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum...d.php?t=171846

    Carb rebuild tutorial...https://gsarchive.bwringer.com/mtsac...d_Tutorial.pdf

    KZ750E Rebuild Thread...http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum...0-Resurrection

    Comment


      #3
      Is there any risk of running 1/2 turn lean if it's just at and slightly above idle? It was nice to have the bike so smooth and quiet, but I like to ride fast so the lack of transition power sucked.

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by Nessism View Post
        Koolaid Kid (George) wrote a procedure on how to adjust he pilot jets. He added more details other than just looking for the highest idle.

        Sometimes the engine idle doesn't respond to tweaking the screws. When that's the case I just set them at 2.5 turns and see how the bike runs. The pilot screws only affect the running at idle and just off.
        For some reason I thought I had VM carbs. Now George's procedure and reasoning makes more sense. I bet I'm 1/4 turn lean due to tuning with a hot engine and will get it cleaned up this evening

        Thank you.

        Comment


          #5
          I don't know if this relates at all because I do have VM Carburetors. When I am dialed in, my 4-1 pipes hardly ever pop at all and if they do it may be one pop if I down shift and that is rare. When the carburetors are not dialed in, it pops so much it is quite irritating.
          '78 GS1000E, Dyna-S ignition, Dyna Green Coils, K&N pods, Delkevic SS 4-1 exhaust, Dynojet Stage 3 jet kit, Russell SS Brake Lines, Progressive suspension, Compu-Fire series Regulator 55402 and Advmonster cree LED headlight conversion.

          Comment


            #6
            I just found I was an extra 1/2 turn lean on 2 and 3. It feels better, I'm going to try another 1/4 turn enriched on all 4. RPM was up about 50-100 when it got warmer. No popping in the short 75mph ride Down acceleration was goDown the street.

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by Joe Garfield View Post
              I didn't adjust any 'air screws' as I don't believe my bike has them. What I'm curious about is if I could have the mixture screws lean but the idle adjustment rich, or something of that sort.
              You are correct, you do not have "air screws". Your PILOT screws are also known as "mixture screws".

              Your mixture screws ARE your idle adjustment.

              Bring the bike up, we can fine-tune that silky idle with a carb sync.

              .
              sigpic
              mine: 2000 Honda GoldWing GL1500SE and 1980 GS850G'K' "Junior"
              hers: 1982 GS850GL - "Angel" and 1969 Suzuki T250 Scrambler
              #1 son: 1986 Yamaha Venture Royale 1300 and 1982 GS650GL "Rat Bagger"
              #2 son: 1980 GS1000G
              Family Portrait
              Siblings and Spouses
              Mom's first ride
              Want a copy of my valve adjust spreadsheet for your 2-valve per cylinder engine? Send me an e-mail request (not a PM)
              (Click on my username in the upper-left corner for e-mail info.)

              Comment


                #8
                1/4 turn makes a difference. I feel like it doesn't quite pull as hard from 0 throttle. RPM change probably due to operating temp and worn valve seals and piston rings. I'm going back in 1/4 turn. It pulled like an untamed beast a few minutes ago.

                Comment


                  #9
                  The thing is Joe, these adjustments you are making affect the idle mixture and the transition from closed throttle to about 15% throttle opening. At that level of opening of the throttle you might not be able to distinguish how hard it's pulling. Although you would easily feel that it was rough going from closed to open throttle. The best way of checking your fuelling through out the operating range of throttle openings and at the position you use most (say 15% to 25% for highway cruising) is to either do the plug chops (Steve's your man for this) or get an A/F ratio print out from a dyno. It's very difficult to do by the seat of your pants so to speak.
                  Richard
                  sigpic
                  GS1150 EF bought Jun 2015
                  GS1150 ES bought Mar 2014: ES Makeover Thread AND blog: Go to the Blog
                  GS1100 G (2) bought Aug 2013: Road Runner Project Thread AND blog: Go to the Blog
                  GS1100 G (1) Dad bought new 1985 (in rebuild) see: Dad's GS1100 G Rebuild AND blog: Go to the Blog
                  Previously owned: Suzuki GS750 EF (Canada), Suzuki GS750 (UK)(Avatar circa 1977), Yamaha XT500, Suzuki T500, Honda XL125, Garelli 50
                  Join the United Kingdom (UK) Suzuki GS Facebook Group here

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by Steve View Post
                    You are correct, you do not have "air screws". Your PILOT screws are also known as "mixture screws".

                    Your mixture screws ARE your idle adjustment.

                    .
                    Yeah I'm missing some terms here - there are 4 idle mix screws (1 in each carb) and there's a knob underneath that adjusts idle speed. What are the technical names for each of these screws?

                    Dogma came by with a manometer and we adjusted the throttle position. I haven't been able to get much over 5,000 rpm due to the shaking, and now I can actually use the second half of the tach gauge I ended up enriching the idle mixture 1/4 turn afterward and it feels really good.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by Joe Garfield View Post
                      Yeah I'm missing some terms here - there are 4 idle mix screws (1 in each carb) and there's a knob underneath that adjusts idle speed. What are the technical names for each of these screws?
                      Very technically speaking, the four screws (one on each carb) are called PILOT screws by Suzuki. Some of us actually have the audacity to call them "mixture screws", but have been reprimanded into submission.

                      The knob underneath is usually known as the "idle speed adjuster".

                      .
                      sigpic
                      mine: 2000 Honda GoldWing GL1500SE and 1980 GS850G'K' "Junior"
                      hers: 1982 GS850GL - "Angel" and 1969 Suzuki T250 Scrambler
                      #1 son: 1986 Yamaha Venture Royale 1300 and 1982 GS650GL "Rat Bagger"
                      #2 son: 1980 GS1000G
                      Family Portrait
                      Siblings and Spouses
                      Mom's first ride
                      Want a copy of my valve adjust spreadsheet for your 2-valve per cylinder engine? Send me an e-mail request (not a PM)
                      (Click on my username in the upper-left corner for e-mail info.)

                      Comment

                      Working...
                      X