1983 GS650GL - Cleaning carbs question

[Guest]

Hi there! This is my first forum post. I've read site-wide and channel FAQs, but I'm pretty sure I'll say something stupid anyway. Sorry in advance.

Just bought a 1983 Suzuki GS650GL. It didn't start at all at first, but after replacing some fuses, ditching the old gas and rebuilding the petcock it starts like a champ with full choke. Then it dies when I give it any throttle. Everything I've read (and my gut) tells me it's a classic "carbs need a-cleanin'" problem. I've never done that before, so I started in.

Pulling the carbs wasn't a problem, except I would really like to treat the boots with something to keep them from drying out and cracking. They are in excellent shape, and I'd like to keep them that way. Suggestions?

Once the carbs were out, the problems began because there are A LOT of well-meaning but often contradictory sources of advice floating around the internets. It seems that everyone has a different way of doing this job. I'm particularly concerned about keeping parts and orientation in order! Actually I don't know what's important in that regard, and would appreciate some advice. I am also concerned about not knowing a) how to inspect things properly, and b) what to buy. Some people say to not buy a rebuild kit; others do. I'm concerned that I'm going to take this carb and destroy it/make it unusable, perhaps by getting the settings all out-of-whack.

Should I get an O-Ring kit from http://cycleorings.com/#BS_Series_O-ring_Kit? If so, which one? Also, he links to a rebuild guide at http://www.thegsresources.com/gs_carbrebuild.htm but that's a bad link. What's a good rebuild resource?

One of the things I've been wanting/needing is a high-level theoretical overview, which this site linked to! Yay! So that's good.

I've got some other questions, like do you really need to replace the fuel line every 2 years? The service manual says so, and I guess it's not a big deal, but I've got lots of little questions like that.

Anyway, thanks much for reading. Sorry if I'm an idiot.

[Nessism]

http://members.dslextreme.com/users/bikecliff/

[Josh Riemann]

http://members.dslextreme.com/users/bikecliff/

There is a lot of information, however there are several links to carb rebuild information, and *all* of the links are bad (404s).

[Nessism]

Check the link in my signature.

[tom203]

When you seperate the carbs, be neat like this guy and keep each carb parts in tbeir own bin. Your boots might maybe be OK, but replace that o-ring at each boot/cylinder head interface - also available at cycleorings.com


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[Nessism]

When you seperate the carbs, be neat like this guy and keep each carb parts in tbeir own bin. Your boots might maybe be OK, but replace that o-ring at each boot/cylinder head interface - also available at cycleorings.com

I find it overly tedious to keep all the parts separate. The only really critical parts to keep together are the float needle and seat, and replacing the needle is a good idea anyway. You can use a marker to keep track of the slides and floats, if you think that matters. Most all other parts don't care if they are mixed up.

[midwestgs]

Not to far into the job you are going to realize all the talk about Japan screwdriver tips are correct. They are not the same as American tips. I would recommend running out and getting them before you start. Also, be very careful when removing the bowl pins. After several nervous whacks, I decided not to replace my seats. I know this is not recommended, but mine were not coming out. DO adjust you're float level- very important.
Bikecliff website has a link to the O-rings to buy, they come in a kit and are all clearly labeled. Use a razor blade to remove you're bowl gasket to reuse.
I do a lot of ammo reloading and used my ultrasonic cleaner to clean all the metal parts instead of dipping them- works much better.
Be clean and take you're time. Print the instructions given on GSResources AND Bikecliff.

Synch'ing you're carb's is more difficult than rebuilding them in my opinion.

[Josh Riemann]

When you seperate the carbs, be neat like this guy and keep each carb parts in tbeir own bin. Your boots might maybe be OK, but replace that o-ring at each boot/cylinder head interface - also available at cycleorings.com

Okay, I'll take that very seriously and I just ordered them, along with a full O-ring set and new intake fasteners, too.

[Josh Riemann]

Okay so I got pretty far in the dissassembly process ran into some issues not covered by the PDF:

1. The needle on the #3 slide is bent, probably about 8 degrees, enough to cause friction. How should I handle that? Does it matter? I'd like to avoid buying C-clip pliers ($30) just for that.
2. The PDF deosn't say anything about removing the bowl drain plugs before cleaning, but there's a rubber gasket in there that I'm pretty sure will melt.
3. The PDF also doesn't say anything about removing the throttle assembly, which probably also has a gasket. I'm concerned about it's reaction to dip.
4. The instructions contradict the instructions on the Carb Dip, which says to soak parts for 30 minutes; the PDF says to soak them from 2-24 hours. Who's right?
5. To construct a fuel level indicator it says something about using "extra" drain plugs - where do you get those?
6. The bowl gaskets are intact, but they don't look great to me. That said, I don't really know what I'm looking at. I'll see if I can figure out how to post photos...

Also, I'm a little confused on what to do after the dip. Air dry? I would have to buy compressed air. WD-40? How long should I wait for reassembly?

Thanks for your help. It looks like I will have some time before reassembly since I just now ordered O-rings.

[Josh Riemann]

Not to far into the job you are going to realize all the talk about Japan screwdriver tips are correct. They are not the same as American tips. I would recommend running out and getting them before you start. Also, be very careful when removing the bowl pins. After several nervous whacks, I decided not to replace my seats. I know this is not recommended, but mine were not coming out. DO adjust you're float level- very important.
Bikecliff website has a link to the O-rings to buy, they come in a kit and are all clearly labeled. Use a razor blade to remove you're bowl gasket to reuse.
I do a lot of ammo reloading and used my ultrasonic cleaner to clean all the metal parts instead of dipping them- works much better.
Be clean and take you're time. Print the instructions given on GSResources AND Bikecliff.

Synch'ing you're carb's is more difficult than rebuilding them in my opinion.

1. Perhaps I have Japanese screwdrivers by accident, because I've had no problems.
2. Bowl pins came out no problem. I realized though that they are asymettrical and can only come one from one side.
3. Bought the O-rings.
4. I would much prefer to use ultrasound, but I don't have that equipment!
5. Thanks for your help

[Nessism]

Okay so I got pretty far in the dissassembly process ran into some issues not covered by the PDF:

1. The needle on the #3 slide is bent, probably about 8 degrees, enough to cause friction. How should I handle that? Does it matter? I'd like to avoid buying C-clip pliers ($30) just for that.
2. The PDF deosn't say anything about removing the bowl drain plugs before cleaning, but there's a rubber gasket in there that I'm pretty sure will melt.
3. The PDF also doesn't say anything about removing the throttle assembly, which probably also has a gasket. I'm concerned about it's reaction to dip.
4. The instructions contradict the instructions on the Carb Dip, which says to soak parts for 30 minutes; the PDF says to soak them from 2-24 hours. Who's right?
5. To construct a fuel level indicator it says something about using "extra" drain plugs - where do you get those?
6. The bowl gaskets are intact, but they don't look great to me. That said, I don't really know what I'm looking at. I'll see if I can figure out how to post photos...

Also, I'm a little confused on what to do after the dip. Air dry? I would have to buy compressed air. WD-40? How long should I wait for reassembly?

Thanks for your help. It looks like I will have some time before reassembly since I just now ordered O-rings.

1) Try bending it straight. If it breaks off get the pliers then and find a better needle.
2) Remove the drain screw w/washer before dipping.
3) Do not remove the throttle assembly. The rubber seals will survive the dip process, just rinse them well.
4) Dip the carbs for the minimum time necessary to clean the parts. This typically takes a few hours but some members here soak for 24 hours each carb and the throttle shaft seals survive this too.
5) Purchase or somehow get your hands on an appropriate screw and make the tool(s). I think the thread size is 5mm x .75 but please search the archives to confirm.
6) Replace the gaskets if they look haggered.

After dipping soak the carbs in water. Use some pressure and push water through the various passages. An air compressor to blow dry the carbs would be best but air dry will work. Hit the bodies with WD-40 after they start to dry off to ward off white corrosion forming on the zinc carb bodies.

Good luck

[Steve]

..., I decided not to replace my seats. I know this is not recommended, but mine were not coming out. ...

You may not intend to replace the seats, but there is an o-ring around it that really should be replaced.




1. The needle on the #3 slide is bent, probably about 8 degrees, enough to cause friction. How should I handle that? Does it matter? I'd like to avoid buying C-clip pliers ($30) just for that.
1a. Exactly where is it bent? If it's near the tip, it might be OK, you can run the needle in and out of the needle jet (emulsion tube) to verify.

2. The PDF deosn't say anything about removing the bowl drain plugs before cleaning, but there's a rubber gasket in there that I'm pretty sure will melt.
2a. Yes, remove the drain plugs so you can replace the o-ring. Also be sure to blow some carb cleaner and some compressed air through the "choke" pickup well in the side of the bowl.

3. The PDF also doesn't say anything about removing the throttle assembly, which probably also has a gasket. I'm concerned about it's reaction to dip.
3a. A few guys will disassemble the throttle shafts, but most of us don't. There is more likelyhood of damaging the throttle or a screw during the process than there is of damaging a seal.

4. The instructions contradict the instructions on the Carb Dip, which says to soak parts for 30 minutes; the PDF says to soak them from 2-24 hours. Who's right?
4a. We are, of course. The instructions on the can were probably written about 40 years ago, when the chemicals in the can could actually do the job within the time stated. If they would just change one word in the instructions, it would be rather accurate. "Soak parts for 15-30 minutes" should be changed to "Soak parts for 15-30 HOURS."

5. To construct a fuel level indicator it says something about using "extra" drain plugs - where do you get those?5a. You might be able to buy one from a dealer (online or local), or you might ask for one here, some of us have extras.

6. The bowl gaskets are intact, but they don't look great to me. That said, I don't really know what I'm looking at. I'll see if I can figure out how to post photos...
6a. They are cheap enough to replace, only $10-12 for the set of four. Just do it.

Also, I'm a little confused on what to do after the dip. Air dry? I would have to buy compressed air. WD-40? How long should I wait for reassembly?
a. When I take carbs out of the dip, they get rinsed in the hottest water my heater can put out (about 150 degrees), then a bit of carb cleaner spray blown in a few select places to ensure that all the internal passages are cleared, then some compressed air is blown through the passages to clear out the carb cleaner. You can begin reassembly before putting the carb back down on the bench, there is no need to wait.

Thanks for your help. It looks like I will have some time before reassembly since I just now ordered O-rings.
a. If you have one can of dip and do one carb per day, you will have your o-rings before your last carb is out of the dip.

[Josh Riemann]

You may not intend to replace the seats, but there is an o-ring around it that really should be replaced.
1. The needle on the #3 slide is bent, probably about 8 degrees, enough to cause friction. How should I handle that? Does it matter? I'd like to avoid buying C-clip pliers ($30) just for that.
1a. Exactly where is it bent? If it's near the tip, it might be OK, you can run the needle in and out of the needle jet (emulsion tube) to verify.

Thanks Steve. It's bent at the base where it enters the slide. In fact, I can't see where it's bent. It does slide into the emulsion tube but it rubs because it's not quite straight.

[JonnyC]

Thanks Steve. It's bent at the base where it enters the slide. In fact, I can't see where it's bent. It does slide into the emulsion tube but it rubs because it's not quite straight.

It's not actually bent. Actually all of them should be cocked at an angle towards the motor. There's a little "nib" on the plastic retainer thing that causes them to lean to one side (towards the motor). Not sure why, but that's how mine are too. Is there abnormal wear in the emulsion tube?

[Steve]

There's a little "nib" on the plastic retainer thing that causes them to lean to one side (towards the motor). Not sure why, but that's how mine are too.

That is to prevent them from rattling with the pulses of intake air.

.