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VM carburetor fine tuning

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    VM carburetor fine tuning

    Hi all,

    I've recently gone through some pretty extensive work on my 1978 GS750 and it runs great but there's some small issues i'd still like to solve. I have replaced the points, did the valve adjustment, and replaced the carburetor O-rings as well as the boot O-rings. I finished installing the carburetors, set the idle fuel screws and air screws. The fuel screws liked to be just barely over 1 turn out on all 4 and the air screws are right around 2.5 out on all 4.

    The bike seems to run great almost all the time. But I am getting a minor carb backfire, it seems like it's the number 2 carburetor but I can't really tell for sure. When I took the carbs off, all 4 boots were a little wet with fuel and I couldn't see any obvious signs of backfire on the intake tubes. If I ride say 80 miles in a day it'll only backfire maybe one or two times which I think is strange. It usually happens if I lightly blip the throttle for a downshift or starting out at a green light just off idle. The throttle response is a little sluggish if I go straight to full throttle off idle but unnoticeable in normal riding. I'm also getting some popping out the exhaust on deceleration although this may be normal with a 4 into 1 i'm not sure. I should probably mention the bike is entirely stock with the exception of the unknown brand 4 into 1 and a UNI filter in the stock box. It has a 15 pilot jet and plastic mains that are stamped 120 but I put in a set of 117.5's and they were way to rich so they must be stamped wrong.

    The last thing is that I seem to be getting some fuel out of the bowl vents/overflows. I can't see it dripping when I put the petcock on prime and I never see any drips while riding or at a red light. But when I get back from a long ride the bottom of the vent tubes are a little wet and the bike smells like fresh fuel after parking it in the garage.

    Some things I've already checked are the vacuum line to the petcock I checked with carb cleaner and by pinching the line with no change in the idle. I've also checked to make sure the new intake boot O-rings sealed. One thing to note is that when syncing the carbs there seemed to be some slight vacuum leaking past the slide into the top cover area on the #1 carburetor and not on the others. Is this normal?
    The current garage:
    1978 GS750
    1975 GT750M
    1984 CB700SC
    1982 XJ650 Seca Turbo
    1975 RD250 - 350 conversion

    #2
    Put your hand on top of each carbs as its running at around 2000 RPMs. When it pops youll feel the carb shudder and youll know which jug is off. Now turn the SIDE MIXTURE SCREW out 1/4 turn and see if it goes away, stay or gets worse on the carb.

    If it stays or gets worse, then the jug was already lean. So turn the screw back in the 1/4 turn to where it was. Then go IN 1/8 turns till it doesn't pop anymore. Make and adjustment and wait maybe 20 seconds for the cylinder to equalize and see what happens. This is a poor mans tuning but its better a tad rich than lean.
    MY BIKES..1977 GS 750 B, 1978 GS 1000 C (X2)
    1978 GS 1000 E, 1979 GS 1000 S, 1973 Yamaha TX 750, 1977 Kawasaki KZ 650B1, 1975 Honda GL1000 Goldwing, 1983 CB 650SC Nighthawk, 1972 Honda CB 350K4, 74 Honda CB550

    NEVER SNEAK UP ON A SLEEPING DOG..NOT EVEN YOUR OWN.


    I would rather trust my bike to a "QUACK" that KNOWS how to fix it rather than a book worm that THINKS HE KNOWS how to fix it.

    Comment


      #3
      With the fuel screws at just over one turn, I would expect the air screws at just under two turns, not 2.5. I agree with Chuck, you are likely a bit lean.

      .
      sigpic
      mine: 2000 Honda GoldWing GL1500SE and 1980 GS850G'K' "Junior"
      hers: 1982 GS850GL - "Angel" and 1969 Suzuki T250 Scrambler
      #1 son: 1986 Yamaha Venture Royale 1300 and 1982 GS650GL "Rat Bagger"
      #2 son: 1980 GS1000G
      Family Portrait
      Siblings and Spouses
      Mom's first ride
      Want a copy of my valve adjust spreadsheet for your 2-valve per cylinder engine? Send me an e-mail request (not a PM)
      (Click on my username in the upper-left corner for e-mail info.)

      Comment


        #4
        I'll go ahead and give that a shot. The problem is like I said it does it maybe once or twice over the course of 60 miles so i'll just have to get lucky with putting my hands on the carbs at the right time. The reason I had the side screws around 2.5 is the plugs are still showing it running a bit too rich. I have ordered a variety of jets so I can figure out whats in it and go down a size.
        The current garage:
        1978 GS750
        1975 GT750M
        1984 CB700SC
        1982 XJ650 Seca Turbo
        1975 RD250 - 350 conversion

        Comment


          #5
          Look at the parts fiche for stock sizes. That is if you have a stock airbox and stock pipes. The problem may NOT be jets at all. The cylinder can be very much adjust through a HUGE range with the side mixture screws regardless of the pilot and main jets.,.thats the beauty of VM carbs. You can also get richness from the choke plungers not seating fully. Some things to check on the plungers are the following::

          When you lift them manually with your finger ( the lifter fork is removed at this point ) do they make a "thunk" sound when you let go of the plunger and they go back in?? If so, then can you feel them seat a little more if you push down on the plunger?? If yes, then they arent seated fully.

          Are any of the long thin tips bent holding them from fully seating??

          Are the seats ( rubber inserts in the ends of plungers ) hard, cracked, missing a chunk??

          Are the raised rims inside the hole in the carb body corroded and holding a seat up a little???

          And the periodic popping may be the extra fuel from a leaking choke igniting in the cylinder from time to time.
          MY BIKES..1977 GS 750 B, 1978 GS 1000 C (X2)
          1978 GS 1000 E, 1979 GS 1000 S, 1973 Yamaha TX 750, 1977 Kawasaki KZ 650B1, 1975 Honda GL1000 Goldwing, 1983 CB 650SC Nighthawk, 1972 Honda CB 350K4, 74 Honda CB550

          NEVER SNEAK UP ON A SLEEPING DOG..NOT EVEN YOUR OWN.


          I would rather trust my bike to a "QUACK" that KNOWS how to fix it rather than a book worm that THINKS HE KNOWS how to fix it.

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by chuck hahn View Post
            Look at the parts fiche for stock sizes. That is if you have a stock airbox and stock pipes. The problem may NOT be jets at all. The cylinder can be very much adjust through a HUGE range with the side mixture screws regardless of the pilot and main jets.,.thats the beauty of VM carbs. You can also get richness from the choke plungers not seating fully. Some things to check on the plungers are the following::

            When you lift them manually with your finger ( the lifter fork is removed at this point ) do they make a "thunk" sound when you let go of the plunger and they go back in?? If so, then can you feel them seat a little more if you push down on the plunger?? If yes, then they arent seated fully.
            I checked all the plungers when I had the carbs apart. The rubber seal is still pliable and they move freely all the way to the seated position. I did just check to ensure I had all the levers installed in the correct direction which I do. Is there a chance the petcock could be leaking only periodically? I had originally checked it by both blocking off the vacuum line to see if the idle changed and spraying carb cleaner around the petcock seal to look for a leak but couldn't find any. The previous owner did tell me he had a problem with the petcock and installed a secondary inline shutoff valve. It also does seem to be coming from the #1 or #2 carburetor. But the petcock seems to work like it should
            The current garage:
            1978 GS750
            1975 GT750M
            1984 CB700SC
            1982 XJ650 Seca Turbo
            1975 RD250 - 350 conversion

            Comment


              #7
              Got pictures of this secondary shut off?? The best test i have devised for petcock leak testing is to get two longer chunks of line and out one on each petcock nipple. run one hose into s dry empty soda bottle and the other into a second bottle. let it set over night..or a few days id the weathers gonna be nasty. if its leaking from eihter the main fuel feed or if the vacuum side one of the bottles will have fuel in it indicating what side of the petcocks gone bad.

              If one of the bottles gets fuel in it dont wast the money or time on rebuild kits...ask anyone here thats been duped by that crap. Replace with new OEM
              MY BIKES..1977 GS 750 B, 1978 GS 1000 C (X2)
              1978 GS 1000 E, 1979 GS 1000 S, 1973 Yamaha TX 750, 1977 Kawasaki KZ 650B1, 1975 Honda GL1000 Goldwing, 1983 CB 650SC Nighthawk, 1972 Honda CB 350K4, 74 Honda CB550

              NEVER SNEAK UP ON A SLEEPING DOG..NOT EVEN YOUR OWN.


              I would rather trust my bike to a "QUACK" that KNOWS how to fix it rather than a book worm that THINKS HE KNOWS how to fix it.

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by chuck hahn View Post
                Got pictures of this secondary shut off??

                It's just one of these cheap things:


                I'm going to test the petock like you said but is it possible for it to leak vacuum? From what I've read they tend to leak fuel and not vacuum?
                The current garage:
                1978 GS750
                1975 GT750M
                1984 CB700SC
                1982 XJ650 Seca Turbo
                1975 RD250 - 350 conversion

                Comment


                  #9
                  If its leaking vacuum it probably wouldnt work at all. The hose going to the petcock can develope a leak though.
                  MY BIKES..1977 GS 750 B, 1978 GS 1000 C (X2)
                  1978 GS 1000 E, 1979 GS 1000 S, 1973 Yamaha TX 750, 1977 Kawasaki KZ 650B1, 1975 Honda GL1000 Goldwing, 1983 CB 650SC Nighthawk, 1972 Honda CB 350K4, 74 Honda CB550

                  NEVER SNEAK UP ON A SLEEPING DOG..NOT EVEN YOUR OWN.


                  I would rather trust my bike to a "QUACK" that KNOWS how to fix it rather than a book worm that THINKS HE KNOWS how to fix it.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by chuck hahn View Post
                    ... dont wast the money or time on rebuild kits...ask anyone here thats been duped by that crap. Replace with new OEM
                    Yep, have to agree with that. The success rate on rebuilding a petcock seems to be about 10-15%. That means that 85-90% of the time, you will spend money on the rebuild kit AND a new petcock.

                    Now, slipping into Clint Eastwood mode ... "How lucky do you feel, punk?"

                    .
                    sigpic
                    mine: 2000 Honda GoldWing GL1500SE and 1980 GS850G'K' "Junior"
                    hers: 1982 GS850GL - "Angel" and 1969 Suzuki T250 Scrambler
                    #1 son: 1986 Yamaha Venture Royale 1300 and 1982 GS650GL "Rat Bagger"
                    #2 son: 1980 GS1000G
                    Family Portrait
                    Siblings and Spouses
                    Mom's first ride
                    Want a copy of my valve adjust spreadsheet for your 2-valve per cylinder engine? Send me an e-mail request (not a PM)
                    (Click on my username in the upper-left corner for e-mail info.)

                    Comment


                      #11
                      I went to a Pingel valve and haven't looked back. Simple no vacuum operation. Manual on/off/reserve.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Are u sure?,u r valve ant a tad on the tight Side?
                        Just a thought?

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by 81gs7501166 View Post
                          Are u sure?,u r valve ant a tad on the tight Side?
                          Just a thought?
                          About 4 of them where a little too tight when I did the adjustment. Now they're all as close as possible to the mid range of the spec.


                          I tested the petcock, it checks out fine. I swapped in a set of 102.5 jets (one size larger than stock). The bike has noticeably more torque but seems like the power levels off at around 6k rpm until redline. I have about 40 miles on the jets and the plugs still look like the same rich soot. Surely the bike with an aftermarket exhaust wouldn't take a jet smaller than stock?
                          The current garage:
                          1978 GS750
                          1975 GT750M
                          1984 CB700SC
                          1982 XJ650 Seca Turbo
                          1975 RD250 - 350 conversion

                          Comment


                            #14
                            On mid-80 model bikes with slip ons and CV carbs, we would drop 1 size on the main's. Manufactors ran them rich so they would burn down on extended WFO runs.
                            Current Rides: 82 GS1100E, 00 Triumph 955 Speed Triple:twistedevil:, 03 Kawasaki ZRX1200, 01 Honda GL1800, '15 Kawasaki 1000 Versys
                            Past Rides: 72 Honda SL-125, Kawasaki KE-175, 77 GS750 with total yosh stage 1 kit, 79 GS1000s, 80 GS1000S, 82 GS750e,82 GS1000S, 84 VF500f, 86 FZR600, 95 Triumph Sprint 900,96 Triumph Sprint, 97 Triumph Sprint, 01 Kawasaki ZRX1200, 07 Triumph Tiger 1050, 01 Yam YFZ250F
                            Work in progress: 78 GS1000, unknown year GS1100ES

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by limeex2 View Post
                              On mid-80 model bikes with slip ons and CV carbs, we would drop 1 size on the main's. Manufactors ran them rich so they would burn down on extended WFO runs.
                              It's my understanding the CV carbs are very different than the VM series. Do you think this still may apply to my situation? I can get the bike to run decently well and have a nice color on the plugs by turning the air screws way out but by doing that I sacrifice idle quality
                              The current garage:
                              1978 GS750
                              1975 GT750M
                              1984 CB700SC
                              1982 XJ650 Seca Turbo
                              1975 RD250 - 350 conversion

                              Comment

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