Am I overlooking something

[chuck hahn]

Steve..the VENT nipples will not create a vacuum...the brass nipple at the back of carb 2 was what you meant.

[Taz1000r]

Got it runnin, for about 10 seconds on starter fluid. Battery died from cranking and jump pack is dead too so I gotta get a charge tonight for tomorrow. Do mixture screws have any effect on start up? I haven't touch them since I've had it. Figure I'd get it runnin then sync em.

[Big T]

If it starts with fluid, it has spark and air
That means your carbs are still plugged up, and no gas to the cylinders

[Steve]

Steve..the VENT nipples will not create a vacuum...the brass nipple at the back of carb 2 was what you meant.

Thanks for catching that, Chuck, I edited the post to add the word "not".

Do mixture screws have any effect on start up? I haven't touch them since I've had it. Figure I'd get it runnin then sync em.

That statement brings two things to my mind:
1. If you haven't touched those screws, you have NOT cleaned the carbs. Yeah, you threw them in the sonic cleaner, but they are not clean. In order to clean them, either chemically or ultrasonically, you MUST strip them down to virtually nothing. You MUST remove all the jets and other parts, the throttle butterflies are the only parts that can stay in place.
2. Those screws have NOTHING to do with carb sync.

Go back to square one. Strip the carbs down, CLEAN them. Refurbish them with new o-rings from cycleoroings.com. Adjust the valves. While you are checking valve clearances, verify cam timing. Verify electrical timing.

Any shortcuts you take are simply an opportunity to do it over, and do it RIGHT.

.

[Taz1000r]

Well **** I guess I'm pulling the carbs again. I pulled the main jets, needle jets, and pilot jets. They were clean when it all went back together. But yes if it starts with fluid, it's not getting fuel delivered. What's up with these black plugs that are inserted into the pilot jet bore. Seems counterintuitive to put a plug over a fuel jet. Ah well I gotta put a neutral safety switch in my buddies beemer tomorrow then I guess I'm pulling the carbs again. Maybe I'll pull em tonight even.

[Big T]

Follow the carb cleaning guide. It's all of the little passages in the carb body that need to be cleaned

[Steve]

Well **** I guess I'm pulling the carbs again. I pulled the main jets, needle jets, and pilot jets. They were clean when it all went back together.

As Big T mentions, it's not so much the jets, it's the passages in the carb bodies that need to be cleaned. THAT is where you need chemicals.

What's up with these black plugs that are inserted into the pilot jet bore. Seems counterintuitive to put a plug over a fuel jet.

Counterintuitive or not, the carbs won't work without them. If you look in the space between the rubber plug and the pilot jet, you will see a small hole that angles down to the central area just above the main jet. The interaction is a bit complex, but the fuel that goes through the pilot jet goes through the main jet first. As the throttle is opened and the needle goes up, more fuel goes through the needle jet, which reduces a bit of flow through the pilot jet. It is not necessary to know exactly how much fuel flows through where and when, just know that when it's all CLEAN, it works.

.

[Big T]

http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showthread.php?249531-Graphic-of-how-CV-carbs-function

[Taz1000r]

Big T, Steve, Chuck. Thank you. An extra set of eyes is always invaluable. I got the carbs pulled and I'm gonna get them stripped again and give them a good soak in either carb cleaner or b12. My sonic cleaner is a tad tiny so I only cleaned the jets : / so I suspect it's the passages within the carb body that are gunked up. I'm gonna get em soakin either tonight or tomorrow before work and let them sit for a day or two. A little off topic here but I was wondering what you guys thought about sprayin a little nitrous at these bikes. I'm just entertaining the idea as of now. I've only ran NOS on liquid cooled machines and there doesn't seem to be a whole lot of valuable information on sprayin it at air cooled equipment. 25 or 50 hp shot maybe. You think gs would be able to dissipate the heat enough? Ignition timing seems to be a concern as well. Just wanted to bounce it off of you and see what ya thought.

[Steve]

Don't just "suspect" the passages in the carbs, BLAME THEM. Your best bet for cleaning is a can of Berryman's Carb Cleaner Dip, but don't follow the directions on the can. The directions say to soak parts for 15 to 20 minutes. That may have been true back when the directions were written, but the contents of the can have changed and the directions have not. You will need to soak parts for 15 to 20 HOURS. If you remove the basket, you can put two carb bodies in the liquid at the same time. See if you can also fit two float bowls in there, too. If not, just save them and do them on the third day, after the bodies come out. If you look in the float bowl, you will see an angled port on one side that leads to a port that slides over the pickup tube on the carb. THAT is the part of the bowl that needs to soak.

When you remove parts from "the dip", rinse them off with the hottest water you have available, then carefully spray some carb cleaner spray through the various ports. Wear safety glasses for this, as there are openings you will not suspect. Follow the spray with a blast of compressed air to make SURE there is nothing in there. It also helps if you blast the air in the reverse direction to normal flow.

Nitrous? Interesting thought, not sure if anyone has done it, especially to an 850. The 850 is probably the GS with the mildest tune, but that is one thing that makes it so darn reliable. We do have a few racers here, as well as a couple that build race engines, will have to see what they think about spraying an 850.

.

[jdvorchak]

We have a really nice pro quality Sonic Cleaner at the Kawasaki dealer, at which I work. I can tell you from personal experience 2 or even 3 heated one hour cycles will NOT clean a plugged pilot jet. It will soften it up but not unclog it. I went to the local music shop and bought a #10 guitar string for about $2 and use that to unclog the jets and emulsion tubes. Last couple of old bikes I did, I used the guitar string first then followed with the sonic cleaner. That worked the best.

At home I use Berrymans carb dip and dip each carb body and jets over night. That doesn't clean the pilot jets either, if they are plugged from sitting for years. Guitar string always works. Then follow up with brake cleaner sprayed through each jet and hole I can find. The trick is, spray in a hole and it HAS to come out somewhere else. After a few you'll learn which holes the spray comes out.

Also don't forget on the BSxx carbs the enrichener (choke) pickup is in the bottom of the float bowl. A little hole near one side. That jet is always plugged and the guitar string works well for that too.