1978 GS1000 Daily

[Jacob4ta]

I'm working on timing now and I'm referencing the service manual but I'm drawing a bit of a blank. I've tried to follow it step by step and done my best to reference the images some of the procedure calls out but it doesn't make much sense to me. This is my first time ever timing a points vehicle so that definitely isn't help my frustration either.

1) Put a 0.35MM gap between the point and the breaker for cylinder 1&4; excellent that was easy enough.
2) Connect timing tester...I don't have that. I have a timing gun if that is what that step is asking for?
3) Rotate crank until index mark 2 comes into register with timing mark 4. What is index mark 2 referring to? Is timing mark 4 just the hole in the plate?
4) Loosen the 3 screws holding plate until the points begin to separate. Which points? Didn't I already put a 0.35MM gap between 1&4?
5) Rotate crank, if breaker begins to open its contact when timing mark 2 comes into register with mark 4 then the adjustment is correct for 1&4. What is mark 2?? What is mark 4??
6) Bring mark F into register with the timing mark. The hole in the plate? 4? Is this mark 4?
7) Loosen screws and rotate plate counterclockwise to determine its position for the beginning of the opening action. When I loosen the screws and adjust the plate there is no gap created between the point no matter which direction I rotate. The point connected to the condenser is screwed to the plate I've just loosened so it can't create a gap.

SOS, send help.

[Steve]

Looking at your mixture settings makes me cringe a bit. Yes, those setting might be what is working, but they are SO far out of 'normal', it makes me wonder if your jets are actually proper.

Some well-meaning (and CHEAP) owners will drill out jets to make them larger. You look at it and say "hey, that's a #15 pilot jet", when it's been drilled out to ... who know what. You already have your jets on order, so wait until they get there, that way you KNOW they will all be the same.

In a stock configuration, having the fuel screw (the one on the bottom) out 1 turn is pretty close for pods and exhaust work. The general ratio for fuel screw/air screw is close to 1:2, but I like to start rich, then tune towards lean, so I start with the air screws about 1 1/2 out. Be careful turning those screws, especially the fuel screw, they are VERY fragile and removing a broken screw tip is not fun.

There should be no need to increase the size of your pilot jets. Needles should be raised a notch or two and mains definitely increased, but I have never understood why the pilot jets needed to be increased. When you remove the airbox, you remove a lot of restriction when the carbs are wide open, so yes, you need more fuel for the mixture. Increase the mains. However, at IDLE, the throttle slides are your restriction, and they are in the same positions as when the airbox was installed. There is no increase in airflow at idle, so why would you need larger jets?

.

[Big T]

So if each new shim is 0.05MM thicker or thinner, how would I go about replacing them? Is it acceptable to go beyond the 0.08MM tolerance? I’m referencing the service manual which shows everything from 2.15MM to 3.10MM in increments of 0.05MM each step.

Are you referring to the factory service manual?
That shows the tool needed for shim removal. Some use the alternative zip tie method. Both are shown on the BassCliff site.

Looser is better, .1 is acceptable. You can get thinner shims from the Shim Club, found in the Services forum

[Big T]

I'm working on timing now and I'm referencing the service manual but I'm drawing a bit of a blank. I've tried to follow it step by step and done my best to reference the images some of the procedure calls out but it doesn't make much sense to me. This is my first time ever timing a points vehicle so that definitely isn't help my frustration either.

1) Put a 0.35MM gap between the point and the breaker for cylinder 1&4; excellent that was easy enough.
2) Connect timing tester...I don't have that. I have a timing gun if that is what that step is asking for?
3) Rotate crank until index mark 2 comes into register with timing mark 4. What is index mark 2 referring to? Is timing mark 4 just the hole in the plate?
4) Loosen the 3 screws holding plate until the points begin to separate. Which points? Didn't I already put a 0.35MM gap between 1&4?
5) Rotate crank, if breaker begins to open its contact when timing mark 2 comes into register with mark 4 then the adjustment is correct for 1&4. What is mark 2?? What is mark 4??
6) Bring mark F into register with the timing mark. The hole in the plate? 4? Is this mark 4?
7) Loosen screws and rotate plate counterclockwise to determine its position for the beginning of the opening action. When I loosen the screws and adjust the plate there is no gap created between the point no matter which direction I rotate. The point connected to the condenser is screwed to the plate I've just loosened so it can't create a gap.

SOS, send help.

1 ok

2. It's a powered test light. You can turn on the ignition and use a test light
3 look in the hole for the index mark. Rotate the crank until the1-4 F mark aligns with it
4. Rotate the entire plate until the test light goes off (on?)
5. Tighten the plate
6. Switch the test light to the 2-3 points. Rotate the crank to align the 2-3 F mark aligns with the index mark.
7. Adjust the small plate on the right until the light changes.

Takeoff the test light and attach your timing light to#4
Fire up the bike and adjust 1-4 onto F1-4. Apply throttle and confirm it advances to the advance mark

Connect timing light to #3 spark wire and confirming F2-3 to index mark. Confirm advance

Sorry I can't remember whether the test light goes on or off, but I haven't usedpoints since 1983, and it's bedtime

[Big T]

I'm working on timing now and I'm referencing the service manual but I'm drawing a bit of a blank. I've tried to follow it step by step and done my best to reference the images some of the procedure calls out but it doesn't make much sense to me. This is my first time ever timing a points vehicle so that definitely isn't help my frustration either.

1) Put a 0.35MM gap between the point and the breaker for cylinder 1&4; excellent that was easy enough.
2) Connect timing tester...I don't have that. I have a timing gun if that is what that step is asking for?
3) Rotate crank until index mark 2 comes into register with timing mark 4. What is index mark 2 referring to? Is timing mark 4 just the hole in the plate?
4) Loosen the 3 screws holding plate until the points begin to separate. Which points? Didn't I already put a 0.35MM gap between 1&4?
5) Rotate crank, if breaker begins to open its contact when timing mark 2 comes into register with mark 4 then the adjustment is correct for 1&4. What is mark 2?? What is mark 4??
6) Bring mark F into register with the timing mark. The hole in the plate? 4? Is this mark 4?
7) Loosen screws and rotate plate counterclockwise to determine its position for the beginning of the opening action. When I loosen the screws and adjust the plate there is no gap created between the point no matter which direction I rotate. The point connected to the condenser is screwed to the plate I've just loosened so it can't create a gap.

SOS, send help.

1 ok

2. It's a powered test light. You can turn on the ignition and use a test light
3 look in the hole for the index mark. Rotate the crank until the1-4 F mark aligns with it
4. Rotate the entire plate until the test light goes off (on?)
5. Tighten the plate
6. Switch the test light to the 2-3 points. Rotate the crank to align the 2-3 F mark aligns with the index mark.
7. Adjust the small plate on the right until the light changes.

Takeoff the test light and attach your timing light to#4
Fire up the bike and adjust 1-4 onto F1-4. Apply throttle and confirm it advances to the advance mark

Connect timing light to #3 spark wire and confirming F2-3 to index mark. Confirm advance

Sorry I can't remember whether the test light goes on or off, but I haven't usedpoints since 1983, and it's bedtime

[Big T]

I missed one thing. The screw that holds the point to the plate is loosened and the point is moved to create the gap.

Oh, and, when you're done, order a Dyna S. ThatswhyI haven't set points simce1983

[Big T]

I missed one thing. The screw that holds the point to the plate is loosened and the point is moved to create the gap.

Oh, and, when you're done, order a Dyna S. Thats why I haven't set points since 1983

[Jacob4ta]

Looking at your mixture settings makes me cringe a bit. Yes, those setting might be what is working, but they are SO far out of 'normal', it makes me wonder if your jets are actually proper.

Some well-meaning (and CHEAP) owners will drill out jets to make them larger. You look at it and say "hey, that's a #15 pilot jet", when it's been drilled out to ... who know what. You already have your jets on order, so wait until they get there, that way you KNOW they will all be the same.

In a stock configuration, having the fuel screw (the one on the bottom) out 1 turn is pretty close for pods and exhaust work. The general ratio for fuel screw/air screw is close to 1:2, but I like to start rich, then tune towards lean, so I start with the air screws about 1 1/2 out. Be careful turning those screws, especially the fuel screw, they are VERY fragile and removing a broken screw tip is not fun.

There should be no need to increase the size of your pilot jets. Needles should be raised a notch or two and mains definitely increased, but I have never understood why the pilot jets needed to be increased. When you remove the airbox, you remove a lot of restriction when the carbs are wide open, so yes, you need more fuel for the mixture. Increase the mains. However, at IDLE, the throttle slides are your restriction, and they are in the same positions as when the airbox was installed. There is no increase in airflow at idle, so why would you need larger jets?

.

Oh for sure the screw positions are not correct for a properly running motorcycle, that's just what works to make it move on its own power with small main and unknown needle locations. Main jets are in the mail, pilots are going to stay 15 pilots with no change. I have no clue what "stock" needle clip location is so I'm going to pick something in the middle and start there. I live at 4400 ft elevation so I assume the needles will need to be on the leaner side of things. I plan on the fuel screw 1 out and air screw 1.5 out as a starting point once I receive all my o-rings, jets and needles. Timing is kicking my butt as of now...

[Jacob4ta]

I missed one thing. The screw that holds the point to the plate is loosened and the point is moved to create the gap.

Oh, and, when you're done, order a Dyna S. Thats why I haven't set points since 1983

My wife stripped out the 1-4 point last night so I'm going try and tap it and see if it cleans up...or order than Dyna and be done with this. I would like to learn how to actually set points and timing on this motorcycle just so I can say I've successfully learned something I've never done before.

[Rob S.]

The bike moves under its own power, reluctantly.

...move on its own power...

I remember the ads from the late '70's. "World's quickest 1000," and "Bike moves under it's own power."

[Jacob4ta]

Ok so I've just completed checking valve clearances this morning. My feeler gauge only goes as small as 0.04MM which I assume is more than satisfactory especially if the tightest measurement within tolerance is 0.03MM.

All the measurements that I listed below are the LARGEST gauge I could fit between the bucket and cam lobe. I checked each valve position in the A and the B position that are referenced in the service manual.

Cylinder 1 Intake: 0.04MM Exhaust: 0.10MM
Cylinder 2 Intake: Too tight Exhaust: 0.04MM
Cylinder 3 Intake: 0.04MM Exhaust: 0.05MM
Cylinder 4 Intake: 0.04MM Exhaust: 0.05MM

Looks like I could use some work on all 8 positions if I am to be closer to the 0.08MM range. I've already contacted Steve via email and I'm patiently waiting for his guide to get to me. The felt valve cover gasket did tear on a couple locations, is it worth it to replace, or just line up the tears and move on with installing the cover?

So I’m going to remove the Cylinder 1 exhaust and Cylinder 2 intake shims. I’ll replace them temporarily with some quarters so while I’m turning the engine over the bucket doesn’t get damaged and nor does the cam lobe itself. I’ve read quarters or dollar coins work well enough as they are soft and non-damaging. If anyone has a different recommendation please let me know. Thanks!

[Jacob4ta]

Time for an update for everyone!

I’ve completed my valve shim adjustment and all are within spec now. I replaced I take boot gaskets with brand new o-rings from CycleOrings. Installed my DynoJet Stage 3 kit with their 138 main(Mikuni 130 equivalent) stock 15 pilots and needles on the 3rd from top position(7 total positions). Fuel screws are 0.75 turns out and air screws are 1.5 turns out. Bike runs night and day better compared to before. Now I can begin working on tuning in the carb set properly to maximize performance and reliability.

Motorcycle responds to throttle well and pulls all the way thru. When I roll off the throttle slightly there is a small surge forward which tells me I’m probably still not “perfect” on my needle position. I may try to raise it 1 position and see how that factors. I do need to do a vacuum sync still, I’ve only performed a bench sync so far.

[Jacob4ta]

Wanted to update everyone on my progress thus far.

Currently carb settings:


Main: DynoJet 138 (Mikuni 130 equivalent)
Pilot: 15
Fuel screws: 1 turn out
Air screws: 1.5 turns out
Needle: 4th clip from top


Intake: K&N oval pod filters


Bike runs great compared to where I started. Accelerated awesome, holds idle a little better, runs at freeway speeds good and sounds great too. BUT I think i need to address my fuel consumption. I did a round trip to work and home which is about 60 miles distance and I had to flip my petcock to reserve at about 50 miles distance traveled. I got to my nearest station and pumped in 3.85 gallons of fuel.


I have a very small weep hole in my tank which contributed to my fuel consumption and I don’t know for sure how much was lost that way. I have not pulled my plugs yet to inspect them but I’m assuming I’m going to be a bit rich.


The bike will be rode between 4200ft and 2700ft of elevation and 45-100*F temperatures all year long.


I’m going to lower my needles to about the 2nd from the top down and see how it runs from that position and I may even order some smaller main jets to have more to play with.

What other suggestions would any of you make? Smaller mains? Needle positions?

[salty_monk]

Your setting sound very similar to mine... in general I get about 40mpg mixed riding.

[Jacob4ta]

Your setting sound very similar to mine... in general I get about 40mpg mixed riding.

Lucky! First tank of fuel was about 15mpg and that can’t be good. I have isolated my small fuel leak to the spot welds on the front of the tank. I have some aerospace sealant I use at work that I’ll apply around the affected area and hope it fixes any leaking.