Shunt vs Series R/R

[pdqford]

With all the discussions with regards to the difference in operation of Shunt vs Series R/R I came across the following postings.
(Not that I understand it all, but a long read that is starting to make some sense to me.)

Regulator / Shunt verses Series | StromTrooper

[650Skull]

Thats a good thread from Stromtrooper. Bookmarked it when i got my DL650. When i did my GS650Ez reg/rect i asked on here. Been a lot of threads on this, didn't expect to much but it ended up with a lot of discussion. Worth a read for some good info

https://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/forum/technical-forums/electrical-ignition/1707222-stater-and-reg-rect-problems-on-82-gs650ez

[Grimly]

With all the discussions with regards to the difference in operation of Shunt vs Series R/R I came across the following postings.
(Not that I understand it all, but a long read that is starting to make some sense to me.)

Regulator / Shunt verses Series | StromTrooper

I tend to believe the terminology that Shindengen use when describing the action of their own products.
Shunts are shorting types. Crude, but effective, and all that was easily made 40 years ago.
Series are opening types. More sophisticated, and more effective. More easily made with modern electronic components.

[pdqford]

Exactly. That's what I'm trying to get my head wrapped around.
It seems (to me) that the shunt type, has the regulator and Rectifier in parallel.
So the regulator and rectifier each do their own thing.
When the regulator see voltage over a set amount it just sends the current to ground.
Thus the stator stays at maximum capacity given the rpm it's at, even if there is low demand.
Early Suzuki's could drop one leg of the stator when the headlight was off to reduce stator output.

The series regulator/rectifier has the two functions in series, so one can impact the other.
I don't know if the series rectifier has diodes, or something equivalent, but (seems to me)
the regulator can either clip the diode equivalent to allow some negative sine wave to reduce the output of the stator or it may be capable of momentarily dropping each stator leg to reduce the output.

Well anyways, that is what I think may be happening.

Perhaps one of the electrical gurus can drop by explain what is really going on, but in layman terms.

[salty_monk]

When you see it on a scope the signal just goes flat, it literally goes open circuit...

[Grimly]

Exactly. That's what I'm trying to get my head wrapped around.
It seems (to me) that the shunt type, has the regulator and Rectifier in parallel.
So the regulator and rectifier each do their own thing.
When the regulator see voltage over a set amount it just sends the current to ground.
Thus the stator stays at maximum capacity given the rpm it's at, even if there is low demand.
Early Suzuki's could drop one leg of the stator when the headlight was off to reduce stator output.

The series regulator/rectifier has the two functions in series, so one can impact the other.
I don't know if the series rectifier has diodes, or something equivalent, but (seems to me)
the regulator can either clip the diode equivalent to allow some negative sine wave to reduce the output of the stator or it may be capable of momentarily dropping each stator leg to reduce the output.

Well anyways, that is what I think may be happening.

Perhaps one of the electrical gurus can drop by explain what is really going on, but in layman terms.

You broadly have the grasp of it, except in a shunt type, the excess voltage is cut at the set-point (14.3v or so) and the internal switching of the regulator doesn't send the excess to ground (because the stator is not directly connected to ground), but sends the excess back into the stator winding that is currently going down - it's three phase, remember - so at all times there is one coming up, one at peak, and one going down. Those electrons gotta go somewhere....
Anyway, 40 years ago, the electronics available to do that were simple and (most importantly) cheap and reliable enough to get the bike out of warranty and into the hands of the second or third owner.
With that, it's no wonder that Suzuki rapidly got a bad rep for the charging system, yet the funny thing is, other makes and models using the same system didn't suffer to anything like the same extent.

In the series regulator, the voltage reaches the set point (about 14.5V) and the electronics cut it off entirely. The electronic components to do this reliably and cheaply only really started being available 20-odd years ago. The principle is dead simple, but the application of it was fraught with difficulty, the bugbear being the back-EMF that cutting a coil component off gives you (that's the basis of the ignition sparking system, after all). So the components had to be able to deal with suppressing and tightly controlling the back-EMF and doing it reliably for millions of cycles and years.
The reason the series regulator was persisted with by Shindengen (and others) was the charging system is as simple as it gets if that nut could be cracked.
Hence, cheaper - a lot cheaper than an excited alternator and associated controller.

[pdqford]

Grimly, Thanks for taking the time to type all that in.
It's beginning to make more sense to me with your help.

I think I need to move on to other issues.
Like trying to get the idle circuit sorted on my GS 750E,
get my SH775 and new stator installed,
along with a relay to keep all the current away from the ignition switch.

Just hope I'm not too old to ride the darn thing by the time I get 'er done!