RRR R/Rs

[Dogma]

OK, I've finished the Ground Loops thread. It seems which wiring scheme one chooses (of approximately three discussed there) is a matter of personal preference. That is, all of them will work if everything is clean. The principal result of my study is this: while I have taken a questionable measurement of resistance on the + side of the charging wiring, I can tell you all that the - side is indeed a mess. I think I remember now that Steve made some recommendations when he helped me get it charging in the first place. Recommendations I forgot due to lack of time and understanding. The most thorough examination I remember anyone made of my grounds at the rally was Tim finding out that my engine ground was covered in something gooey. Folks would be excused for thinking that I had a reasonable grounding scheme after learning that I had moved the R/R ground to the battery, but they were all wrong. The subject did come up after the last spare regulator was gone. The first lesson I've learned from all of this is the same we preach for intake and brake systems and any other system. Make sure the baseline stuff is right before diagnosing problems. The second lesson is not to make a mod to a system you don't understand.

The key issue of the whole ground loops thread is whether the connectors are all clean and corrosion free. Folks talk about cleaning grounds and whatnot every chance they get. For me, that's not going to be good enough. My charging system went from functioning to consuming expensive parts in 2 months or less. I can't be bothered to wash my bike that often, much less reexamine my wiring. (Perhaps folks only mean to emphasize the importance of grounds rather than recommend that level of vigilance.) It seems that in lieu of connections that can stay corrosion free for decades without intervention, I need a way to monitor the health of the charging system so I know when it's turning green. I'm thinking that part of the overhaul of my wiring should include a permanent battery voltage gage. Not that I won't make the effort to get connections that last decades. It's just that I would take great comfort in being able to examine the health of my battery and charging system every time I start the bike.

[posplayr]

OK, I've finished the Ground Loops thread. It seems which wiring scheme one chooses (of approximately three discussed there) is a matter of personal preference. That is, all of them will work if everything is clean. The principal result of my study is this: while I have taken a questionable measurement of resistance on the + side of the charging wiring, I can tell you all that the - side is indeed a mess. I think I remember now that Steve made some recommendations when he helped me get it charging in the first place. Recommendations I forgot due to lack of time and understanding. The most thorough examination I remember anyone made of my grounds at the rally was Tim finding out that my engine ground was covered in something gooey. Folks would be excused for thinking that I had a reasonable grounding scheme after learning that I had moved the R/R ground to the battery, but they were all wrong. The subject did come up after the last spare regulator was gone. The first lesson I've learned from all of this is the same we preach for intake and brake systems and any other system. Make sure the baseline stuff is right before diagnosing problems. The second lesson is not to make a mod to a system you don't understand.

The key issue of the whole ground loops thread is whether the connectors are all clean and corrosion free. Folks talk about cleaning grounds and whatnot every chance they get. For me, that's not going to be good enough. My charging system went from functioning to consuming expensive parts in 2 months or less. I can't be bothered to wash my bike that often, much less reexamine my wiring. (Perhaps folks only mean to emphasize the importance of grounds rather than recommend that level of vigilance.) It seems that in lieu of connections that can stay corrosion free for decades without intervention, I need a way to monitor the health of the charging system so I know when it's turning green. I'm thinking that part of the overhaul of my wiring should include a permanent battery voltage gage. Not that I won't make the effort to get connections that last decades. It's just that I would take great comfort in being able to examine the health of my battery and charging system every time I start the bike.

I'm actually using two volt meters a VDO analog and a Showchrome digital. The digital seem to be more useful as it has 0.1V resolution.

If I had use for another gauge I would probaly just swap out the VDO volt meter; I hardly look at it.

There are some subtle and not so subtle differences in R/R to battery conenctiosn. Probably most important is to clean teh conenctiosn and use some dielectric grease to stop corrosion. Solder what crimps you can or shrink wrap them with dielectric grease.

[Steve]

I'm actually using two volt meters a VDO analog and a Showchrome digital. The digital seem to be more useful as it has 0.1V resolution.

If I had use for another gauge I would probaly just swap out the VDO volt meter; I hardly look at it.

On the other hand, ...

I have a VDO analog guage on my Wing. Yeah, I don't need to look at it very often, and I don't really think a drop from 14.2 to 14.1 volts would alarm me. It's more of a concern for me if I see it dipping more than a needle-width below the 14 mark, as the only time that usually happens is right after it is started, as the ALTERNATOR is bringing the battery back up to snuff.

Yeah, I like "toys" on my toys, but sometimes the precision of a digital meter might be a bit too distracting. That being said, I do have a digital guage on my wife's bike and will likely end up with one on "Junior", simply because it's easier and cheaper.

.

[Dogma]

Er, um, using two on the same bike?

[posplayr]

Er, um, using two on the same bike?

I added two VDO gauges at first :
Oil pressure and Volts as I already had Oil Temp and Fuel as part of stock cluster.

As an after though also added the Showchrome and was not sure if it would last or if I would keep it. Since voltage range is normally 12.8v to 14.2v that is only about a 1.4V total range. Having the showchrome 0.1v resolution gives some visibility into variations

[spchips]

I have had three of these bikes give me "charging problems" and every time the problem has been connector voltage drop causing problems. You don't need to clean them much, just need to check the voltages each year or if you have hard starting problems.

[Dogma]

Well, in the process of removing the wiring harness tonight, this happened:



I don't think that was helping. The crimp on the spade completely failed to grab the wire. I don't think I'll be using those connectors again. In fact, I was planning to solder the next R/R anyway. Is it conceivable that the 3rd R/R survived? It passed the diode/continuity tests.

[posplayr]

Is it conceivable that the 3rd R/R survived? It passed the diode/continuity tests.

Very much so.

[Mysuzyq]

I added two VDO gauges at first :
Oil pressure and Volts as I already had Oil Temp and Fuel as part of stock cluster.

Slick set-up there, Jim....nice symmetry, looks almost factory.

[bakalorz]

The crimp on the spade completely failed to grab the wire. I don't think I'll be using those connectors again. In fact, I was planning to solder the next R/R anyway. Is it conceivable that the 3rd R/R survived? It passed the diode/continuity tests.

A lot of people on the GSR advocate soldering harness wires, but I advocate against it.

My reasoning is that the solder flows into the wire and stiffens it for some distance past where the strain relief protects it. So in a year or two or ten, you face the possibility of the wire being broken INSIDE the insulation. Have fun troubleshooting that situation ...

For a PROPERLY crimped connection, the problem is rarely the crimp itself, its the connector to connector conection that can degrade ... and dielectric grease pretty much prevents that. Some go even farther and use special crimp connectors made for boats, which are designed to seal out water.

To get a good crimp you need a couple of things:
Good non-corroded wire to crimp to.
Reasonable quality connectors (not the dolllar store specials)
AN ACTUAL CRIMPING TOOL ... not vise-grips or needle nose pliers ... and for Gawds sake not those crappy things that come with 100 assorted crimps for $9.99.

If you search you will find a fairly big thread a year or two ago where a bunch of us beat the subject to death and then beat the corpse for a while longer.

-----

If a R/R passes all the diode tests, it will usually charge (since it will Rectify completely correctly)
Note however, the diode tests tell you nothing about whether it will regulate, so it could overcharge ...

-----

One further point ... in your first post you said your stator tested marginal ... but in fact, you only tested at 3500 RPM ... the stator test is supposed to be at 5000 ... since voltage is proportional to RPM, that means that you could expect to get about 85 volts at 5000 ... so the stator is not just marginal but probably good.

[Dogma]

Bakalorz, haven't seen you on in a while. Any chance you remember the title of that thread? I searched for it, but came up with diddly. I'd like to read it (and then do what I want).

[posplayr]

A lot of people on the GSR advocate soldering harness wires, but I advocate against it.

My reasoning is that the solder flows into the wire and stiffens it for some distance past where the strain relief protects it. So in a year or two or ten, you face the possibility of the wire being broken INSIDE the insulation. Have fun troubleshooting that situation ...

For a PROPERLY crimped connection, the problem is rarely the crimp itself, its the connector to connector conection that can degrade ... and dielectric grease pretty much prevents that. Some go even farther and use special crimp connectors made for boats, which are designed to seal out water.

To get a good crimp you need a couple of things:
Good non-corroded wire to crimp to.
Reasonable quality connectors (not the dolllar store specials)
AN ACTUAL CRIMPING TOOL ... not vise-grips or needle nose pliers ... and for Gawds sake not those crappy things that come with 100 assorted crimps for $9.99.

If you search you will find a fairly big thread a year or two ago where a bunch of us beat the subject to death and then beat the corpse for a while longer.

-----

If a R/R passes all the diode tests, it will usually charge (since it will Rectify completely correctly)
Note however, the diode tests tell you nothing about whether it will regulate, so it could overcharge ...

-----

One further point ... in your first post you said your stator tested marginal ... but in fact, you only tested at 3500 RPM ... the stator test is supposed to be at 5000 ... since voltage is proportional to RPM, that means that you could expect to get about 85 volts at 5000 ... so the stator is not just marginal but probably good.

I will agree with most of this, but for your typical layman who doesn't have a $200 crimper I would solder most of the R/R connections and dress the harness so that the wires are secure. The solder joint is preferred from the standpoint of keeping corrosion out of the crimps. Yes spade connections are much better than bullets but they both still have crimp connections to the end of the wire. Depending on your local weather conditions corrosion can be a constant battle (I live near the ocean where there is high humidity).

Another thing you could do if you want to only crimp is to stick some dielectric grease into the connector before crimping it. I did some crimp spades recently (when installing the Compufire SERIES R/R) kinda as a test to see how long they last (no dielectric grease in the crimp and it was only the switched power for coil relay mod).

You need to stay below 0.1 ohms resistance for the most of the R/R connections doing that in a humid environment is tough without soldering

I don't want to beat this to death, and am well aware of solder connections v.s. crimp in aerospace.

Jim

P.S this is a linky to the best thing since GS Sliced Bread.

http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showthread.php?t=161397

[Macguyver]

For the most part, I have replaced the bullet connectors with weatherproof connectors. I guess I do things a little differently than some, since I solder all of the "crimp" connections instead of crimping them. (Yes, I have a $200 crimping tool I rarely use anymore, I prefer solder for anything that doesn't get hot enough to reflow the solder.)

Any connection not sealed behind dielectric grease and silicone boots also gets dual wall heat-shrink over it. I find that barely anyone uses this stuff, but I whole-heartedly recommend it since the inner "wall" is a malleable plastic liner which liquifies when you shrink the piece, and oozes into all of the airspaces around, and in the connection. Permanently sealing it away from everything. It can make it a real bear to open connections up after they are shrinked for later testing, but I personally prefer to know that there is 0% chance of any elements getting at my connections.

I believe I have exactly 2 wires on my harness which I had to put extensions on, and they are joined with a western union twisting of the wires, soldered, and then dual wall heatshrinked.

The only frustration I have ever had from doing wiring this way is that sometimes after I have already twisted wires together and soldered them, I discover I forgot to put the length of heatshrink over the wire first!

I hope this helps,

[posplayr]

The only frustration I have ever had from doing wiring this way is that sometimes after I have already twisted wires together and soldered them, I discover I forgot to put the length of heatshrink over the wire first!

been there done that

[koolaid_kid]

Dale, these are the connectors I was telling you about:http://www.napaonline.com/Search/Res...word&Nty=1&N=0
The female part number is 785927, the male part number is 785928.
Simply slip the bare wire into the connector and use a heat gun. It melts the solder and seals the shrink tubing. Once the solder is melted, use a crimper to finish the job. One connector, solders seals and crimps.
Just a thought, you can do the same thing by hand as long as you remember all the steps.
They also may ring connectors and butt connectors that do the same thing, and they come in various gauges.
I purchased this kit on fleabay: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/NEW-K...olesaleQ5fLots
Best of luck.