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'78 1000 dead coil?

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    '78 1000 dead coil?

    Ive parked my GS for the season, not because it isnt weather for riding, but because 2 of the cylinders dont fire due to missing spark. I drove into town alot slower than normal, since my home town was celebrating its 50th annual jazz festival and there was so much traffic on the roads that it wasnt anything else to do than to keep in line and follow. Then i pulled over to look at a bankrupcy sale that sold riding gear cheap, and when I started the bike afterwards it ran very rough. I thought i had went out of gas, filled some at the gas station that was luckily nearby, but no improvement. Any attempt of clearing the old warrior's throat failed(including cooling it down to remove an eventual vapor lock in the fuel system.). So I rode the 35 kilometers home on two cylinders, and found that the spark was missing on one of the coils. But here comes trouble. I can perhaps check if it is the coil itself by swapping the wires and see if the dead coil fires when its being fed from the other ones power supply, but thats it. How can I find out whats wrong if theres no power at the other wire? If it is the controller box/cdi unit or one of the two pickups on the engine? Besides, something makes me think the ignition has been modified: There is a red wire attached to the frame with strips that goes to the two pickups, it starts at one of them, goes over to the other and then up to the CDI where it looks like a somewhat homemade connection.(I'd think there would be 2 wires, but it is perhaps some kind of coax cable??) At least someone has reattached the wire or tried to seal the unit better, as there is alot of sillicone around. So there it stands then, in seven stones, any good advice?

    #2
    These bikes came with contact points- I think!- so it seems that someone has converted yours to magnetic pickups and cdi or ignitor. Do you see any numbers or other markings on this cdi box? This would help others who will chime in shortly. What you call the "pickups", we refer to as a signal generator unit. On my original suzuki pickups, there is a red wire that connects the two minicoils together. Sounds like a loose connection- especially if you see a silicone repair. Look for a brand name on this "cdi" box. Meanwhile, visit Basscliff's house of repair terror to gain more insight into diagnosing ignition problems.
    1981 gs650L

    "We are all born ignorant, but you have to work hard to stay stupid" Ben Franklin

    Comment


      #3
      does it still have the original wires with the resisitors in the caps? Bad resisitors will mimmic a bad or failing coil as well. Take a flathead screwdriver and remove the plug inside the boot and replace the resisitors in there with a 1/8 inch diameter piece of brass cut to the length of the resistor..if that doesnt get her sparking then i would then assume the coil is bad.
      MY BIKES..1977 GS 750 B, 1978 GS 1000 C (X2)
      1978 GS 1000 E, 1979 GS 1000 S, 1973 Yamaha TX 750, 1977 Kawasaki KZ 650B1, 1975 Honda GL1000 Goldwing, 1983 CB 650SC Nighthawk, 1972 Honda CB 350K4, 74 Honda CB550

      NEVER SNEAK UP ON A SLEEPING DOG..NOT EVEN YOUR OWN.


      I would rather trust my bike to a "QUACK" that KNOWS how to fix it rather than a book worm that THINKS HE KNOWS how to fix it.

      Comment


        #4
        Ive stored the bike and cant get to it just now but the controller unit is a black, flat box, and it doesnt seem to be any way of opening it. Its located at the rear fender under the saddle, the wire going to the hall effect coils is near the right lower corner(same side as ignition plate) and the other ones come out of the top as far as I can remember. Original plug caps I dont know.. at least one or two of them seems to be from something else.. But as I think of it, ive had another issue of non running cylinders just after cold start: It ran at 3 cylinders for a little while, maybe 20-30 seconds at high rpm and low throttle solved that so it never was any problem.. I thought a choke channel on one of the carbs was clogged, never thought of that it could be a spark issue..

        Comment


          #5
          pull a plug wire and look down into the boot..if theres a slotted brass plug in there unscrew it and dump the resistor and back up spring out into your hand,,youll see what i mean.. the spring goes in the boot first, then the resistor, then the cap screws in.
          MY BIKES..1977 GS 750 B, 1978 GS 1000 C (X2)
          1978 GS 1000 E, 1979 GS 1000 S, 1973 Yamaha TX 750, 1977 Kawasaki KZ 650B1, 1975 Honda GL1000 Goldwing, 1983 CB 650SC Nighthawk, 1972 Honda CB 350K4, 74 Honda CB550

          NEVER SNEAK UP ON A SLEEPING DOG..NOT EVEN YOUR OWN.


          I would rather trust my bike to a "QUACK" that KNOWS how to fix it rather than a book worm that THINKS HE KNOWS how to fix it.

          Comment


            #6
            No need to park it yet! "hall effect coils" - are you into electronic stuff ? sounds like this will be minor problem for you. So it had been running fine (except for this cold start stuff) until you went to town and joined a parade? Maybe bike got a little hotter than normal and something melted- like that silicone connection you described?
            "Flat box"- like pack of american cigarettes or more high techie looking?
            Go to the link to Basscliff's site and see if anything looks familiar. My guess is something has loosened up or failed on this conversion.
            1981 gs650L

            "We are all born ignorant, but you have to work hard to stay stupid" Ben Franklin

            Comment


              #7
              Not really into it.. found it in an old book about automobile engineering my grampa gave to me when I was a kid, it was probably from the sixties and a section described electronic ignition... It wasnt exactly a parade, just heavy traffic and I had to keep below 60 kph for abt 35 km's.. Otherwise I'm rarely below 100... Shape of box about exactly like a 20-hardpack of Luckies on its side, only perhaps abit slimmer and rounded at the edges. I think also the front of it was abit rounded, slimmer on the left and right edges and thicker on the middle. "Basscliff"? I thought Cliff Burton was dead...

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by arve View Post
                Not really into it.. found it in an old book about automobile engineering my grampa gave to me when I was a kid, it was probably from the sixties and a section described electronic ignition... It wasnt exactly a parade, just heavy traffic and I had to keep below 60 kph for abt 35 km's.. Otherwise I'm rarely below 100... Shape of box about exactly like a 20-hardpack of Luckies on its side, only perhaps abit slimmer and rounded at the edges. "Basscliff"? I thought Cliff Burton was dead...
                I have no idea who Cliff Burton is, but , on this site, Basscliff might be a former beach boy who manages a warehouse full of suzuki repair tidbits.Follow the link to his site and prepare to be amazed! As to your ignitor box, it sounds like the one that suzuki started using about 1980 - but another guy in this place - blowerbike- should be able to advise on this stuff.I'm not sure if he's conscious during our daylight hours, so you might have to wait.
                How long have you had this bike and mileage?
                1981 gs650L

                "We are all born ignorant, but you have to work hard to stay stupid" Ben Franklin

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by tom203 View Post
                  I have no idea who Cliff Burton is, but , on this site, Basscliff might be a former beach boy who manages a warehouse full of suzuki repair tidbits.Follow the link to his site and prepare to be amazed! As to your ignitor box, it sounds like the one that suzuki started using about 1980 - but another guy in this place - blowerbike- should be able to advise on this stuff.I'm not sure if he's conscious during our daylight hours, so you might have to wait.
                  How long have you had this bike and mileage?
                  Cliff Burton was the first bassist in Metallica and the first that pops into my mind when the words "bass" and "Cliff" is mentioned in the same sentence. (Ride the lightning is one of their albums he's in on, perhaps that was this other guy's thing when he thought out the name "basscliff"... well... only he knows..) I saw his website, nice! but wait.. "warehouse"? I googled "basscliff" and found(besides old Metallica and "learn to play bass" videos) this here website: http://members.dslextreme.com/users/bikecliff/ Seems to be the same guy. But he didnt sell any parts, perhaps I dont interprete the word "tidbit" right.. Anyway, lots of interesting stuff, thanks! Ive had this bike since last summer, the dial reads about 55k km. Just got me a real skunk tank im gonna use when im restoring it.. It had alot of unoriginal parts when I bought it, GSX tank, Raask footpeg set and Supertrapp cans connected to the header pipes with welded together milk machine pipes... Ive collected some parts, only missing a few now and I will have a skunk with all the correct parts.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    the guy you found googling basscliff is our very own Cliff...GS member of the year.
                    MY BIKES..1977 GS 750 B, 1978 GS 1000 C (X2)
                    1978 GS 1000 E, 1979 GS 1000 S, 1973 Yamaha TX 750, 1977 Kawasaki KZ 650B1, 1975 Honda GL1000 Goldwing, 1983 CB 650SC Nighthawk, 1972 Honda CB 350K4, 74 Honda CB550

                    NEVER SNEAK UP ON A SLEEPING DOG..NOT EVEN YOUR OWN.


                    I would rather trust my bike to a "QUACK" that KNOWS how to fix it rather than a book worm that THINKS HE KNOWS how to fix it.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      I found out what a "tidbit" was.. what we call a "godbit"(literally "good piece"), a good piece of food, literature, ass or whatever you can call a treat.. One learns something new every day!

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by arve View Post
                        I found out what a "tidbit" was.. what we call a "godbit"(literally "good piece"), a good piece of food, literature, ass or whatever you can call a treat.. One learns something new every day!
                        "godbit"- we're learning too! ( or trying at least)
                        1981 gs650L

                        "We are all born ignorant, but you have to work hard to stay stupid" Ben Franklin

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Germanic. In fact, if one mixed our languages, the result would be pretty much alike Old English I'd say....... Fader vår, du som er i himmelen + Our father you that are in heaven = Fæder ure, thu that aert in heavenum, giv os in dag oår dayglie dose exaos, save os fra motorstop og rustig jaron och squat os not under lastbilar.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by arve View Post
                            Germanic. In fact, if one mixed our languages, the result would be pretty much alike Old English I'd say....... Fader vår, du som er i himmelen + Our father you that are in heaven = Fæder ure, thu that aert in heavenum, giv os in dag oår dayglie dose exaos, save os fra motorstop og rustig jaron och squat os not under lastbilar.
                            I've had a few drinking partners who spoke like that ,but they didn't know any German! Anyways, your bike problem could be bad connections- at worst bad coil,bad ignitor box or signal generator- no big deal, you'll figure it out when you get to it.
                            1981 gs650L

                            "We are all born ignorant, but you have to work hard to stay stupid" Ben Franklin

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by arve View Post
                              Ive stored the bike and cant get to it just now but the controller unit is a black, flat box, and it doesnt seem to be any way of opening it. Its located at the rear fender under the saddle, the wire going to the hall effect coils is near the right lower corner(same side as ignition plate) and the other ones come out of the top as far as I can remember. Original plug caps I dont know.. at least one or two of them seems to be from something else.. But as I think of it, ive had another issue of non running cylinders just after cold start: It ran at 3 cylinders for a little while, maybe 20-30 seconds at high rpm and low throttle solved that so it never was any problem.. I thought a choke channel on one of the carbs was clogged, never thought of that it could be a spark issue..
                              It sounds like you have a Dyna 2000 - does the black box have heat sink fins on one side and say Dyna?

                              And, yes, switching the wires to the coils would tell you if it's a coil problem or something in the ignition pick ups or black box

                              Pictures are always good
                              1978 GS 1000 (since new)
                              1979 GS 1000 (The Fridge, superbike replica project)
                              1978 GS 1000 (parts)
                              1981 GS 850 (anyone want a project?)
                              1981 GPZ 550 (backroad screamer)
                              1970 450 Mk IIID (THUMP!)
                              2007 DRz 400S
                              1999 ATK 490ES
                              1994 DR 350SES

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