Poll for Compufire R/R Users

[Matchless]

Now you have me baffled as all of your prior comments made sense assuming you were thinking the SERIES was a linear regulator.

If all you did was change "linear" to "SERIES" (which a linear is still a SERIES) I don't understand .

The Compufire and Cycel Electric are Synchronous rectification (with synchronous cycle control) regulators.

They are SERIES but they are not linear. This last statement is the game changer.

Jim,
I am not an expert, but this is what I perceive as a basic series regulator:

http://www.tpub.com/content/neets/14179/css/14179_230.htm

I have seen the LM317 is called a series linear regulator and have used them many times in various configurations. I have seen the LTC3810 referred to as linear switch-mode regulators. Unfortunately my theoretical knowledge is sorely lacking (out of date) and more focused on the practical aspect, with the maintenance and repair thereof.
I think just disregard my comments, I know nothing about the specific brand name you are using and should have refrained from responding because of that.
MY apologies.

[posplayr]

Jim,
I am not an expert, but this is what I perceive as a basic series regulator:

http://www.tpub.com/content/neets/14179/css/14179_230.htm

I have seen the LM317 is called a series linear regulator and have used them many times in various configurations. I have seen the LTC3810 referred to as linear switch-mode regulators. Unfortunately my theoretical knowledge is sorely lacking (out of date) and more focused on the practical aspect, with the maintenance and repair thereof.
I think just disregard my comments, I know nothing about the specific brand name you are using and should have refrained from responding because of that.
MY apologies.

Matchless,
It can be a little confusing just going by the names; The R/R manufactures call them either SERIES or SHUNT , so I followed but tried to explain the operation in that pdf.

I'm not a power supply guy either but I understand some of the basic categories. The Compufire and Cycle Electric regulators are not any common regulator that I have found a chip for as of yet. It doesn't fit into any of your examples.

When an power supply engineer says "linear" mode, they principally mean a regulator where the primary power devices are NOT operating in saturation. Running in saturation means you are either ON or OFF. Being in saturation is good because there is very low power dissipation in the device during that time. When the switch is open there is no current so no power. When the switch is ON , there is very low voltage drop (it is a short) and so even though there is alot of current flowing, there is little power expended in the R/R because there is no voltage drop.

High efficiency switch mode regulators are principally worried about the small amounts of time they are switching between ON and OFF because that is when they dissipate most of the power.

The LM317 (is called a series linear regulator) because it is NOT switched mode and is series so it is not very efficient. It basically has to suckup any power that the source generates that doesn't go to the load. For a motorcycle, this would require a huge heat sink and (as far as I know)nobody builds these for motorcycles.


The Compufire is definitely not a linear mode device. It is SERIES (but other things are as SERIES as well, linear mode for example), so the Compufire/Cycle Electric are a special kind of SERIES.

Most switch mode (which are not linear) have free running fast switching 10K to 150K Hz for example. They also use energy storage devices external to the part (large capacitors and inductors). The faster they switch the smaller these parts are, but that trades off by the more they switch the less efficient they get. The LTC3810 is one of these devices

"LTC3810 - 100V Current Mode Synchronous Switching Regulator Controller".


The Compufire is a synchronous controller in that it operates at the source frequency which is RPM/10 for 18 poles stators. So even at 10K RPM it is only 1K hz a very low frequency for any switch mode regulator and would require huge components. So the Compufire is not really a switch mode regulator like the LTC3810 either. It is actually closer to the technology required for synchronous motor controllers.

Synchronous Rectification (SR) as used in the Compufire it turns out the same techniques are also used for high efficiency power conversion products where low output voltages mean even small voltage drops are a large part of power conversion efficiency.

http://scholar.lib.vt.edu/theses/available/etd-173510281975580/unrestricted/chapter2.pdf

So basically the Compufire is similar to the FET based design where it monitors the cycle by cycle stator waveforms. The SERIES Compufire either allows the power to pass (by SR) or just opens the line when it doesn't want power to pass to the battery. The FET is almost the same SR (at least the lower leg FETs), but it shorts the windings instead of opening them when the battery voltage is too high.

I provided more details in the pdf

http://scholar.lib.vt.edu/theses/available/etd-173510281975580/unrestricted/chapter2.pdf

In the simplest terms the SERIES R/R is very much like the left hand headlamp switch where one of the stator legs goes through the ganged switch. If the voltage is low the stator winding is connected to a an efficent full wave rectifier. If the battery voltage is too high the switch is simply opened disconnectig the stator power from the electrical system. The decision is made during each AC cycle on each phase.

Jim

[Matchless]

Jim, apologies for messing up your poll thread, it was unintentional and thanks for all the detail. Basically I am resigned to the fact that I am just too old for all the new technology, and rather use it without knowing how it was designed.

Used to take thing apart to see how they work when I was younger, now I just work with things until they fall apart!

Keep well.

[posplayr]

Jim, apologies for messing up your poll thread, it was unintentional and thanks for all the detail. Basically I am resigned to the fact that I am just too old for all the new technology, and rather use it without knowing how it was designed.

Used to take thing apart to see how they work when I was younger, now I just work with things until they fall apart!

Keep well.

No problem, the complexity of the discussion far exceed the basic simplicity of the fundamental SERIES R/R design. The SERIES R/R basically just opens the stator winding when there is too much voltage . The fact it does so in sync with the stator voltage is a detail and doesn't change the fact that the stator is not shunted which is where all the stator stress comes from in a SHUNT design .

[posplayr]

bruuummp............

[tkent02]

I have never had a stator go bad, have bought a few bikes with bad stators already. All with corroded wiring. This new type regulator sounds like a no brainer anyway. Shutting off the power that isn't needed instead of wasting it as heat, brilliant. Going to buy three for now, probably more in the future if they work out well. I didn't realize there are a few different companies selling them, who has the best built regulator at the best price? Is there any difference functionally between the different brands? Thanks for all this information.

[GSJim]

I have a new ElectroSport ESR090 (not Electrex) regulator on the GS650G now but might consider the Compufire if I have to do more work on the wiring. As far as I can tell, the stator is good but I don't like some of the wiring and still need to clean up grounds and remove bullet connectors before making a final decision.

My long departed GS550T did not have regulator problems but fried a stator at 15,000 km.

Jim

[Wallowgreen]

Fitted a compu-fire on my 1100 after the battery got boiled at Reno this year. So far so good, seems to be doing a good job. Can't tell if the stator is running cooler or not but hoping it is and I've seen the last of those burning up. Not sure how many miles yet but it's not that many so voted less than 500.

[Mith]

Since I found this discussion interesting, I took a look at CompuFires website and found that they have 9 Series regulators listed in their catalog. They all have various current specifications ranging from 22A to 38A. Which one would be the correct choice as a replacement for an '81 GS550L? Anyone care to hazzard a guess?

Pete

[posplayr]

Since I found this discussion interesting, I took a look at CompuFires website and found that they have 9 Series regulators listed in their catalog. They all have various current specifications ranging from 22A to 38A. Which one would be the correct choice as a replacement for an '81 GS550L? Anyone care to hazzard a guess?

Pete

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FIX Chronicly burning stators with SERIES R/R COMPUFIRE see GS CHARGING_SYSTEM_HEALTH

[posplayr]

bumpo...................

[posplayr]

bump........................

[Steve]

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[posplayr]

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nice ..............

[OldVet66]

I'll be installing a Compufire on my GS1000E very soon. It just boiled the water out of my battery again. It takes about three months, but it is a regular occurrence. I need to add some heated glove liners to the mix, so it sounds like the Compufire might be the ticket.