Starter circuit problem URGENT

[Counterpoint]

As previously stated.

Also If i short the thin wire on the solenoid to the power feed direct from the battery the solenoid does engage and the starter turns fine. giving the conclusion that the starter and solenoid both work fine.

[posplayr]

As previously stated.

but if you power this wire from the start button the battery cable gets hot and the starter doesn't turn? That is what you said before

[K-Log]

If im testing for resistance with a multi meter and i put one probe onto the wire that leads towards the starter button from the solenoid ((with the solenoid disconnected)(yellow/green)) and the other on the negative wire that connects to the battery terminal or any part of the frame for that matter (without the battery installed) and i press the starter button with the switch set to on and the clutch pulled in should i get a reading that indicated a complete circuit or should only the positive battery wire complete the circuit?

And just to add, rebuilt starter in perfect working order, brand new OEM solenoid.
Also If i short the thin wire on the solenoid to the power feed direct from the battery the solenoid does engage and the starter turns fine. giving the conclusion that the starter and solenoid both work fine.

If you are checking the incoming signal wire at the solenoid (yellow/green) with an ohmmeter back to a ground and all the safety switches, keyswitch, and start button are pressed (made) the meter will show low resistance from all the parallel paths back through the individual loads that are grounded. So yes it will look like a complete path.
This type of test might be misleading at best. The difference being maybe 1 ohm and we don't know what the value is before the test.
An easier test is to disconnect the yellow/ green wire from the solenoid place the red meter lead on that wire. Place the black meter lead on ground (frame) with the clutch pulled in, switch on, battery disconnected (both leads) press the starter button. If you see a path back to ground 1 ohm or less then you have a direct short in the control portion of the circuit. The tricky part will be that this measure can also be as high as 1 million ohms and still indicate a short.
If what you have stated before is true and the starter & solenoid work when jumping the terminal where the yellow/green wire is connected on the solenoid to +12V then I would suspect a short in the control circuit coming from the start pushbutton.
Another check you can do is reconnect the battery both + & - set your volmeter to measure DC voltage and check across the battery and write down the measurement. Now place the red voltmeter lead on the disconnected yellow/green wire from the solenoid and the meters black lead to ground. (frame) Press the starter button and see what the voltage is at the end of the yellow/green wire.
The voltmeter measurement should be the same as what your battery measures across the + & - terminals. If the wire (yellow/green) gets hot or a fuse blows then the wiring on the control side is shorted somewhere between where the wire connects to the solenoid and the start pushbutton. If the wire (yellow/green) does not get hot and a fuse does not blow and you have 12+ volts at the end of the wire. Then the control side of the starter solenoid wiring is fine.
I'm only going off of what has been previously posted I do not have the schematic in front of me.
Hope this helps!
Good Luck!

[posplayr]

If you are checking the incoming signal wire at the solenoid (yellow/green) with an ohmmeter back to a ground and all the safety switches, keyswitch, and start button are pressed (made) the meter will show low resistance from all the parallel paths back through the individual loads that are grounded. So yes it will look like a complete path.
This type of test might be misleading at best. The difference being maybe 1 ohm and we don't know what the value is before the test.
An easier test is to disconnect the yellow/ green wire from the solenoid place the red meter lead on that wire. Place the black meter lead on ground (frame) with the clutch pulled in, switch on, battery disconnected (both leads) press the starter button. If you see a path back to ground 1 ohm or less then you have a direct short in the control portion of the circuit. The tricky part will be that this measure can also be as high as 1 million ohms and still indicate a short.
If what you have stated before is true and the starter & solenoid work when jumping the terminal where the yellow/green wire is connected on the solenoid to +12V then I would suspect a short in the control circuit coming from the start pushbutton.
Another check you can do is reconnect the battery both + & - set your volmeter to measure DC voltage and check across the battery and write down the measurement. Now place the red voltmeter lead on the disconnected yellow/green wire from the solenoid and the meters black lead to ground. (frame) Press the starter button and see what the voltage is at the end of the yellow/green wire.
The voltmeter measurement should be the same as what your battery measures across the + & - terminals. If the wire (yellow/green) gets hot or a fuse blows then the wiring on the control side is shorted somewhere between where the wire connects to the solenoid and the start pushbutton. If the wire (yellow/green) does not get hot and a fuse does not blow and you have 12+ volts at the end of the wire. Then the control side of the starter solenoid wiring is fine.
I'm only going off of what has been previously posted I do not have the schematic in front of me.
Hope this helps!
Good Luck!

except he claimed his RED battery leads are what is getting hot, not the green/yellow and the starter is not running.

[K-Log]

posplayr, I agree.
Then Counterpoint also said the starter and solenoid works when jumping the solenoid terminal to +12 so it's a contradiction. I'm just trying to help him narrow it down.

[posplayr]

posplayr, I agree.
Then Counterpoint also said the starter and solenoid works when jumping the solenoid terminal to +12 so it's a contradiction. I'm just trying to help him narrow it down.

I understand, it is what I call a Least Squares Approach, (best fit of the information) . OK good another motivated GSR'er to take over

[Redman]

OK. A simple one. If im testing for resistance with a multi meter and i put one probe onto the wire that leads towards the starter button from the solenoid ((with the solenoid disconnected)(yellow/green)) and the other on the negative wire that connects to the battery terminal or any part of the frame for that matter (without the battery installed) and i press the starter button with the switch set to on and the clutch pulled in should i get a reading that indicated a complete circuit or should only the positive battery wire complete the circuit?...
...
....

Ah Haa !
Here is the sourse of the confusion, if you have the meter set to measure resistence and push the button and put voltage to the meter, .... if that is what you are doing when you say this or that is "earthing". Ah, haa, that is what the confusion is.

No ! No ! That is not how you measure resitance.
No ! No ! That is not how you determine if the circuit is complete between here and there !That is not how you measure resitance.
So that is why all your previous statements of "having an earth" or "sending an earth signal" does not make any sence.

What you described about having one lead on a wire (wire connected to solenoid or wire disconnected) and another lead on the ground and then pushing the starter button, that, that is what you would do to measure voltage.
Have the meter set to a voltage, DC voltage (not AC).
If when you push the button and you see the voltage go from nothing to about 12 volts then you have a good idea that the everthing in the circuit up to that point is functioning.

Practice measuring voltage in a few places, like acraost the battery, or at fuses.

So, have meter on DC voltage setting, Put meter lead on solenoid (yel/blk) and other lead on ground, then push button. IF see voltage go from zero to about 12, then know all that circuit is good up to that point, and then no need to look into any of that (thin wire) any more. Then look into the starter motor (thick wire) circuit.

Tell us more what you find.

(I too suspect your solenoid is defective. THe half of it that is in the starter motor circuit.)

.

[posplayr]

Ah Haa !
Here is the sourse of the confusion, if you have the meter set to measure resistence and push the button and put voltage to the meter, .... if that is what you are doing when you say this or that is "earthing". Ah, haa, that is what the confusion is.

No ! No ! That is not how you measure resitance.
No ! No ! That is not how you determine if the circuit is complete between here and there !That is not how you measure resitance.
So that is why all your previous statements of "having an earth" or "sending an earth signal" does not make any sence.

What you described about having one lead on a wire (wire connected to solenoid or wire disconnected) and another lead on the ground and then pushing the starter button, that, that is what you would do to measure voltage.
Have the meter set to a voltage, DC voltage (not AC).
If when you push the button and you see the voltage go from nothing to about 12 volts then you have a good idea that the everthing in the circuit up to that point is functioning.

Practice measuring voltage in a few places, like acraost the battery, or at fuses.

So, have meter on DC voltage setting, Put meter lead on solenoid (yel/blk) and other lead on ground, then push button. IF see voltage go from zero to about 12, then know all that circuit is good up to that point, and then no need to look into any of that (thin wire) any more. Then look into the starter motor (thick wire) circuit.

Tell us more what you find.

(I too suspect your solenoid is defective. THe half of it that is in the starter motor circuit.)

.

see what K-log said; nothing wrong with the solenoid or starter; now sounds like a bad starter button

posplayr, I agree.
Then Counterpoint also said the starter and solenoid works when jumping the solenoid terminal to +12 so it's a contradiction. I'm just trying to help him narrow it down.

[posplayr]

I guess the urgent need has subsided?

Problem solved?

Let us know so we can avoid the same problem in the future?

[Redman]

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..Also If i short the thin wire on the solenoid to the power feed direct from the battery the solenoid does engage and the starter turns fine. giving the conclusion that the starter and solenoid both work fine.

I would agree with your conclusion.

And then there is a problem in the the circuit of the
Igntion fuse (orang wire) to the kill switch to the starter button to the clutch switch to the solenoid (yel/grn wire).

Put meter in VOLTAGE setting. (not resistance).
Put meter- lead on the ground or battery negitive.
As a quick test of the meter, put the meter+ on the thick red cable just to verify meter operation and meter- connection.
Now to proceed with the troubleshooting....
Put meter+ on the solenoid thin wire.
Ignition On, kill switch on, clutch pulled in, hit the starter button.
Should see the 12volts if everthing in the circuit is good (but by your previous statement can quess that you will not).
Will assume that you do not see the 12volts at the solenoid thin wire.
Can continue testing by working your way back along the circuit untill you see the 12volts.
Or can continue testing by starting at the source, in this case the Ignition fuse, and going along the circuit untill you see were you loose the 12volts.
Lets do that.

With ignition switch on, put meter+ on the ignition fuse, should see the 12volts on both sides of the fuse. If that is good, then go to next item which is the kill switch, but that is kinda hard to get at because it is inside the right control unit. BUt you can find the connector that comes from the kill swich and the starter button (green/yellow) wire on way over to the clutch swtich, this connector is probably in headlight shell, follow the cable from the right controls to find it. Put meter+ on the green/yellow wire from the control unit (can jam meter lead into the connector). Press the starter button, should see 12volts. If you do see the 12volts there, then can say the kill swtich and the starter button are both good. If not, ther is a problem with the kill switch or the starter button (will have to take apart the control unit to check further).

Next thing in line is the clutch switch. Follow the cable from the clutch switch and find its connector (it may be two individaul connectors) for the two green/yellow wires. Both wires from the clutch swtich are green/yellow. The green/yellow from the starter button should have 12v when push the starter button. And the other green/yellow (to the solenoid) should have the 12v when have both the starterbutton pushed and theclutch pulled in at same time, if not then your problem is the clutch switch.

Next thing in line is the solenoid . . . . .



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[Counterpoint]

Sorry guys, had go away on work for a few days. I apologies for the lack of communication.

I've since re-wired most of the circuit and fixed the problem. Would have been nice to of known what the problem was but at least the bikes good again. Thanks everyone for all your help. Greatly appreciated

[posplayr]

Sorry guys, had go away on work for a few days. I apologies for the lack of communication.

I've since re-wired most of the circuit and fixed the problem. Would have been nice to of known what the problem was but at least the bikes good again. Thanks everyone for all your help. Greatly appreciated

Yet another unsolved lectrics problem; maybe we can get a little help.................