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My starter keeps burning up the contact points???

  • Thread starter Thread starter Defore
  • Start date Start date
D

Defore

Guest
Why do I keep shaving the contact points on the inside of the starter?
 
What does shaving mean?

My starter went out tonight when doing my cat rounds. It happened the first time six months ago and I put the starter in from my '79 that I've got sitting in the back yard with a blown head gasket. This time I have no more extra starters lying around.

Is it easy to shave the contact points to fix the problem? I wonder if I took my starters apart and "shaved" them maybe my starters would work again?

As to why it happens, at least in my case, my theory is the previous owner of my current bike did an electrical mod (that is recommended on this forum IIRC) that allows extra juice to go to the starter. Or maybe the mod is for more juice to the plugs? It's a common mod so maybe this isn't the problem - maybe I'm just having bad luck with starters.

The original starter on this bike only had 18K miles on it when it went out. It's sitting on my worktable and I thought I might take it apart to see what burned up inside but so far I've just put that off. Now, without a starter (AND NO KICK STARTER!!) I'm stuck until I track down another one.

If I've got "shaved points" like you do, what do I do to fix them?

Thanks,

Mike
 
end bushings are worn beyond tolerance and the arm is wobbling so they grind the heck out of the carbon.
 
Defore said:
Why do I keep shaving the contact points on the inside of the starter?
Click to expand...
Are you "shaving" them, or is starter grinding them off excessively? Is your starter full of grit? And they are called "commutator bars".
 
MikeS said:
As to why it happens, at least in my case, my theory is the previous owner of my current bike did an electrical mod (that is recommended on this forum IIRC) that allows extra juice to go to the starter. Or maybe the mod is for more juice to the plugs? It's a common mod so maybe this isn't the problem - maybe I'm just having bad luck with starters.


Mike
Click to expand...
The electrical mod is to get more voltage to ignition system. The only way to get more juice to starter would be put two batteries in series ( higher voltage) , but please don't even think of doing this. A bike in good tune will start quickly, thereby saving the starter motor from excessive work.
 
NOOO Im not shaving them my starter is. sorry guys. Ok so what should I go bout this?
 
Defore said:
NOOO Im not shaving them my starter is. sorry guys. Ok so what should I go bout this?
Click to expand...
OK, have you opened up your starter alot?The brushes could be worn down and chewing on commutator. If this has happenned alot, I'd look for a new-to-you starter motor.
 
"The electrical mod is to get more voltage to ignition system."

Oh. Thanks for clearing that up. I was trying to figure out some explanation for having gone through two starters on this new bike in less than 2500 miles. I ordered one on eBay this morning for $25 + $12 for shipping. I'll take the one out that's on the bike currently and see if I can figure out why it's not working. I still have to take the first starter apart too. I'm getting old and slow, but am also busy with putting a new spinner on a new prop I've got. I like working on the plane a lot more than on the bike, although they do have a lot in common with each other. If I had not gotten countless miles out of the starter on my old bike I would think these starters are weak - but it was exactly my old starter that has now failed on the new bike. The new bike is eating starters for some reason. I thought it might be the electrical mod . . . .

The starters get plenty of juice. I was thinking too much. Guess not.
 
The starter brushes go bad, get worn out. Clean the starter Take it to a starter/electrical shop and have the brush surface trued up.. Install new brushes
 
Thanks. I'll do that. One shop I called said they don't work on motorcycle starters and another one, a bike mechanic, looked in his Suzuki book and said the brushes come in a "kit". It wasn't cheap, but don't remember what he said. Put the kit price together with the time he would spend rebuilding the starter, it's cheaper to just buy one that is working on eBay. Obviously I need to learn how to rebuild a starter myself and find a cheap source for the brushes.
 
MikeS said:
...
.... Obviously I need to learn how to rebuild a starter myself and find a cheap source for the brushes.
Click to expand...

Search for "Stockers".

Best way to dress up the commutator bars (so they dont chew up your brushes) is to do it in a metal lathe. But you can try the poor-mans-method, of spining the armature in a drill motor and dressing the commutaor bar with emmory paper (I used emmory paper on a paint stir stick.)

Here is link to posting with some related pictures.
http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showthread.php?t=131785&highlight=starter



But as mentioned above, if bearings are bad in starter motor, then you have other problems to attend to.

.
 
Last edited:
Good thread and info Redman . . . thanks! Now I know what I'm getting into.

I called Stockers this morning to price a used starter. $125. Compared to new I guess that's not bad but there was a time long ago when Stockers was cheap. They sold to somebody else and moved to a different part of town and now the prices are up there.

eBay has starters for less. I got mine for $25 + $12 shipping. I'll see if it works when it gets here, but the seller says it does and it's his on-line business so it probably will. Meantime I'll take one of mine apart and see if I've got the two or four brush - probably both. The '79 (currently on the bike) is probably a two and the one that failed at 18K (original with the bike) is probably a four.

Good stuff.

Mike
 
One other thing to check is the starter button isn't sticking and the starter is running all the time.
 
Resolved

Resolved

I've been out of town mostly but finally went to put my new eBay starter in to replace the one that had "burned out" and discovered that it had turned itself so much inside the enclosure that it was shorting itself out - either that or it was jammed at an angle and couldn't turn. I untangled it and it starts fine. I hope I didn't damage the flywheel teeth too much.

How could this possibly happen you ask? If you can't get the starter bolts to seat in their holes then why not just leave them out? Where's the thing going to go, Detroit? I had lodged a thick piece of towel between the starter and the cover plate to hold the starter in place. It worked for quite a while . . .

So the old GS850G starter from my old bike is still fine. The original starter that came on this '82 (19K miles ) did burn out. I've got it on my desk and will take it apart someday and see what's melted.

I've now got a back-up thanks to the eBay starter (I think it was about $35 with shipping) but will probably never need it. This starter out of my old bike (70K miles) is strong as ever - one reason perhaps being that I used to use the kick starter a lot, especially in the cold months, thinking it would take some of the stress off the starter and help it last. I guess it did!

I used a mirror and a flashlight to line up the starter flange with the bolt holes and got one bolt in tight this time. I couldn't find the other bolt. One's enough, eh?
 
I use a Starter\Motor\Alternator repair shop and thy work on everything.
Cutting a coomutator and putting in new brushes would be childs play.
70 bucks or so gets you a reliable rebuilt starter.

Oh well.
 
MikeS said:
I've been out of town mostly but finally went to put my new eBay starter in to replace the one that had "burned out" and discovered that it had turned itself so much inside the enclosure that it was shorting itself out - either that or it was jammed at an angle and couldn't turn. I untangled it and it starts fine. I hope I didn't damage the flywheel teeth too much.

How could this possibly happen you ask? If you can't get the starter bolts to seat in their holes then why not just leave them out? Where's the thing going to go, Detroit? I had lodged a thick piece of towel between the starter and the cover plate to hold the starter in place. It worked for quite a while . . .


I used a mirror and a flashlight to line up the starter flange with the bolt holes and got one bolt in tight this time. I couldn't find the other bolt. One's enough, eh?
Click to expand...
When the starter engages, it puts out alot of torque- those bolts are there to resist this twisting; towels, duct tape, etc. are poor substitutes. If the bolt holes didn't line up, something is/ was wrong. Find another bolt.
 
MikeS said:
...
............. and discovered that it had turned itself so much inside the enclosure that it was shorting itself out - either that or it was jammed at an angle and couldn't turn. I untangled it and it starts fine. I hope I didn't damage the flywheel teeth too much.

How could this possibly happen you ask? If you can't get the starter bolts to seat in their holes then why not just leave them out? Where's the thing going to go, Detroit? ....
.........
.........
.?
Click to expand...

Yikes, if the starter motor terminal had contacted the engine case you would have known that by the cables melting and burning insullation (is no fuse in the starter motor cables). Thoise thick battery cables to the starter would turn into a toaster heater element.

Yah, those bolts are hard to get at.

I cant say if one is going to hold the starter or not. If the starter does twist a little bit it will be flexing the one bolt, and quess what the repeated flexing will do.

.

.
 
Last edited:
All right all right already! I'll find another bolt :|. Sheesh.

How about one bolt and an extra thick piece of towel? No?

" . . . you would have known that by the cables melting and burning insullation . . ."

Now I know what that burning smell was. It's sure a good thing these bikes are tough.

I sure miss my kickstarter.
 
"When the starter engages, it puts out alot of torque- those bolts are there to resist this twisting; towels, duct tape, etc. are poor substitutes. If the bolt holes didn't line up, something is/ was wrong. Find another bolt."

I haven't tried duct tape. How about one bolt, a thick piece of towel, and duct tape? The bolt holes line up when you slide the starter just so . . . hard to do blind. I finally got the one bolt in using a mirror and flashlight, making sure they were lined up before sticking the bolt in. The second bolt has one of the cables in the way but I'll get it in soon. The bolt that is in is quite tight so it shouldn't be flexing much if at all. But still, two is better. If it comes loose again it could fry something next time. I'm lucky I didn't this time.

I know . . . this is really sloppy mechanical work on my part.
 
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