85 GS 550E ignition problems still

[timbaux]

A few weeks back i posted a need for an igniter. I got one that is working and found some pick up coils in a deal with the same seller.

About 4 weeks ago, my bike suddenly died on the highway at 60 mph. I was able to get off the road.

Prior to this, every once in a while, I had to push the bike and pop the clutch to get it to start. It would turn over, but would not start. When I pushed it, it would start.

Also, at times, I would need to hook up the battery charger, and it would start.

Now, it has deteriorated to the point that after I get it started on the battery charger, and run in a few mins, then turn it off, even with the battery charger connected, it will not start.

I have checked the coils, both high and low and the resistance is within the limits of specs in the repair manual.

The igniter, both of them that I have swapped back and forth, have checked out all the way across the chart.

The pickup coils are about 315, 330 ohms, so thats good on both readings.

I am stuck at this point.

The spark plugs are good.

I used a tester and the spark seems faint on the re-try after running it.

I got one more idea..i am going to disconnect all the plug wires so the thing wont start and test the sparkplug wires all the way across . see if its a better spark thats making the motor start after a period of battery charging.

[JEEPRUSTY]

Hi Timbaux:
This sounds more like a battery\charging issue than an ignition problem.
Can you do a specific gravity test ont he battey?

You could assume a lot but the Stator and Reg\rectifier may well have been the cause fo the original Igniter box dying.

There is a manual for the bike on Cliff's website. I assume you have it as you quote coil specs.

Do the charging system checks and make sure you battery can still hold a full charge.

[timbaux]

Hi Timbaux:
This sounds more like a battery\charging issue than an ignition problem.
Can you do a specific gravity test ont he battey?

You could assume a lot but the Stator and Reg\rectifier may well have been the cause fo the original Igniter box dying.

There is a manual for the bike on Cliff's website. I assume you have it as you quote coil specs.

Do the charging system checks and make sure you battery can still hold a full charge.

I have the battery charger hooked up, it seems to spin fine, that battery had a rough first year or so, i went thru the whole charging system straining on it.

Cleaned the carbs today, cleaned air filter, went through everything.

The bike started immediately, i rode it around a good big without problems. I parked it, and started it back up about 15 seconds later, and it did fine. Turned it off and then back on again and hit the starter,, it stumbled a bit, but started...then i turned it off, waited about 2 or 3 minuites, and it would restart..just spun over.

I put the battery charger on it, and it would not start. I took float bowl nuts out to make sure it was getting gas, and it was fine. The bowls were full.

Monday i am going to go back over the charging system. such a good motorcycle.

everybody telling me throw it away, but i cant do it.

[Flyboy]

Have you hecke that you are getting a full 12V to the coils while cranking the starter?
As the wiring harnesses get old and the resistence in them increases, you may be getting less voltage to the coils, that is why it will not start with the starter, as it is draining away all the juice and leaving very little for the coils, but when you push start it, it fires right up, there is no drain on the electrical juice by the starter, so the coils get the required voltage.
Do a search on the coil relay mod, lots of info and a well worthwhile mod to do.

Just another thought; when last did you check the valve clearance?
hard starting is a classic symptom of tight valves, you may find that the clearances are next to zero and the valves are just barely seating when it is cold, but once it warms up a bit and everything expands there is no clearance and the valves are not seating.

[timbaux]

Have you hecke that you are getting a full 12V to the coils while cranking the starter?
As the wiring harnesses get old and the resistence in them increases, you may be getting less voltage to the coils, that is why it will not start with the starter, as it is draining away all the juice and leaving very little for the coils, but when you push start it, it fires right up, there is no drain on the electrical juice by the starter, so the coils get the required voltage.
Do a search on the coil relay mod, lots of info and a well worthwhile mod to do.

Just another thought; when last did you check the valve clearance?
hard starting is a classic symptom of tight valves, you may find that the clearances are next to zero and the valves are just barely seating when it is cold, but once it warms up a bit and everything expands there is no clearance and the valves are not seating.

This week I am going to pull the valve cover off and check the clearances.

[BassCliff]

Hi,

Your charging system (stator and regulator/rectifier unit) is not keeping the battery charged. You should check, clean, repair, or replace every electrical connection in your entire wiring harness. Run the ground wire from the r/r unit directly to the negative battery terminal. Make sure that the three output wires from the stator are connected directly to the three input wires of the r/r unit.

Read The Stator Papers and follow the troubleshooting procedures contained therein. See the electrical page on my website for more information and troubleshooting tips. Also on my website, see the guides for stator and r/r replacement and testing.



Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff

[JEEPRUSTY]

I have the battery charger hooked up, it seems to spin fine, that battery had a rough first year or so, i went thru the whole charging system straining on it.

Cleaned the carbs today, cleaned air filter, went through everything.

The bike started immediately, i rode it around a good big without problems. I parked it, and started it back up about 15 seconds later, and it did fine. Turned it off and then back on again and hit the starter,, it stumbled a bit, but started...then i turned it off, waited about 2 or 3 minuites, and it would restart..just spun over.

I put the battery charger on it, and it would not start. I took float bowl nuts out to make sure it was getting gas, and it was fine. The bowls were full.

Monday i am going to go back over the charging system. such a good motorcycle.

everybody telling me throw it away, but i cant do it.

Egads man do not throw it away. Show us a picture and we shall all climb on board to commiserate with you.

The cleaning of connections is very important. I chopped by bullet connectors out and soldered the reg\rect directly, This made for a massive reduction in heat being generated in the reg\rectifier.

I used a propane torch with a soldering tip. I am a classy guy to be sure.

Posplayr an sort of electrical guru had a post about a no load stator test being bad. I never read it but the manual for you bike indicates a no load test is to be done. You may want to peruse his post to gett eh lowdonw on the negative aspects of doing so.

[BassCliff]

Posplayr an sort of electrical guru had a post about a no load stator test being bad. I never read it but the manual for you bike indicates a no load test is to be done. You may want to peruse his post to gett eh lowdonw on the negative aspects of doing so.

Hi,

A "no load" test is not bad. It's just that they are not 100% conclusive. I've had stators pass the "no load" tests and fail the load tests. A "no load" test can tell you if a stator is bad, but they can not guarantee if a stator is good. That's all.


Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff

[timbaux]

Basscliff, and jeep...

I am scheduling a valve-clearance ajdustment for Monday. I should have time to get to it.

When it wont start, i put the battery charger on it, and it still wont start.. but I DO notice that it goes to 6 amps when i hook the charger up.

I am thinking.. now I am narrowed down to three things...

1. Valve clearance issue may be making hard start...

2. Not getting 12 volts to coil due to wiring ...

3. Battery either not getting charged or not holding a charge.

seem sensible??

[BassCliff]

Hi,

Is there a place where you can take your battery to have it "load tested"? Go ahead and adjust the valves as they probably need tending to. Once the bike is running, then test the charging system. Have you cleaned up every connection and ground in the wiring harness?

What kind of charger are you using on your battery? If you are charging it with 6 amps then you may have killed your battery. I've always thought that 1.5 amps should be the maximum. See: Battery Charging

Note that the charging rate for initializing a battery, the first charge of a new battery, is different from a "maintenance" charge of a battery that's been in service.
Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff

[timbaux]

Today, after work, i was able to do a little more.. I was trying to determine if there was 12 volts to the coil.

Interesting......

Before turning key on, i checked battery voltage, which was 12.52.

I turned the key on and checked the voltage at the coil, and it was 10.74 volts.

I disconnected the headlight and it was 11.0 volts.

I put the black lead of tester on the battery negative and then put the red lead on the orange wire coming out of the igniter, and it was 10.74 volts with the headlight plugged in.

So, I am losing voltage somewhere between the battery and the igniter.

Could it be my key switch.?

something else.. i am deaf, and my English is ok, but we dont have signs for all these words, and I dont know what they mean half the time.

When they say "ignition switch", do they mean starter button or the key switch?

I dont think the starter button is leaking voltage... Could it be the ignition switch? Its got that green plug.....
darn it..

I am getting close.. i can feel it.. i am getting close

I just MISS riding my bike. People asking me at the softball park, where's the 550????

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

tim

[JEEPRUSTY]

Today, after work, i was able to do a little more.. I was trying to determine if there was 12 volts to the coil.

Interesting......

Before turning key on, i checked battery voltage, which was 12.52.

I turned the key on and checked the voltage at the coil, and it was 10.74 volts.

I disconnected the headlight and it was 11.0 volts.

I put the black lead of tester on the battery negative and then put the red lead on the orange wire coming out of the igniter, and it was 10.74 volts with the headlight plugged in.

So, I am losing voltage somewhere between the battery and the igniter.

Could it be my key switch.?

something else.. i am deaf, and my English is ok, but we dont have signs for all these words, and I dont know what they mean half the time.

When they say "ignition switch", do they mean starter button or the key switch?

I dont think the starter button is leaking voltage... Could it be the ignition switch? Its got that green plug.....
darn it..

I am getting close.. i can feel it.. i am getting close

I just MISS riding my bike. People asking me at the softball park, where's the 550????

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

tim

There are a few articles ont he drop in voltage to the coils. The coil relay mod is a purported fix but cleaning all connections alos helps.
Ignition switch is the key switch not the starter button.

This switch's plug is a pig for corrosion. I got stranded once and found that it had partially melted internally due to heat from resistance sue to corrosion.

[spyug]

You have not mentioned anything about checking your charging system and I agree with Cliff that it is likely not functioning properly. Charging at 6 amps is also not good and it probably has toasted the battery. If the charging system is not functioning the battery is only going to run the bike so far (thus your conk out on the highway).

It seems that the issue is compounded by resistance in the circuits so, as mentioned, you need to clean and or replace all the contacts from battery to fuse block and those into and out of the igniter and to the coils.

Even after cleanning everything you might find the voltage drop from battery to coils is still 1+volts (common) and in this case I would strongly recommend the coil relay modification. It will make a big difference.

First you want to get that battery load tested and replaced if necessary. Once it runs check your charging system as per the Stator Papers. I'm betting something is not working there.

Good luck with it.

cheers,
Spyug

[timbaux]

You have not mentioned anything about checking your charging system and I agree with Cliff that it is likely not functioning properly. Charging at 6 amps is also not good and it probably has toasted the battery. If the charging system is not functioning the battery is only going to run the bike so far (thus your conk out on the highway).

It seems that the issue is compounded by resistance in the circuits so, as mentioned, you need to clean and or replace all the contacts from battery to fuse block and those into and out of the igniter and to the coils.

Even after cleanning everything you might find the voltage drop from battery to coils is still 1+volts (common) and in this case I would strongly recommend the coil relay modification. It will make a big difference.

First you want to get that battery load tested and replaced if necessary. Once it runs check your charging system as per the Stator Papers. I'm betting something is not working there.

Good luck with it.

cheers,
Spyug

I ran out of time today. Was going to start it and get it running and then check to see if voltage was ok. Wednesday I should have another chance, tomorrow I got all these service calls (I am an electrical contractor) and there is no chance I will be home before 6 or so tomorrow.

[timbaux]

Ok, I am going to do the coil relay mod


Tell me where do I cut into the wire... ?

I have the diagram i am talking about the physical location of where I tap into it.?

near the ignitor plug? which wire?

Just want to be sure.